Executive Committee – May 14, 2018 – Part 2 of 2

Executive Committee – May 14, 2018 – Part 2 of 2


and its first or something else
something else okay so are there any other members of council visiting with
us okay otherwise then we’re quite ready to hear from members of the committee
who wish to speak on the tenants first if any all right councillor Pasternak
please Thank You mr. mayor and I do have a motion regarding arena organization
that supports community inclusion for people with developmental disabilities
we’re just trying to go on record that we support the current negotiations that
are going on with city staff to to enable the transferring of facility to
so that Rena can keep on with their great work Ward 10 has a very high
concentration of seniors in its TCH buildings
6250 Bathurst 4455 Bathurst 750 Wilson Heights and more mixed residences at 495
Wilson and 12 King high as well we also have five been a birth buildings which
are below market rent also primarily seniors when when we hear from current
residents we we hear about isolation we hear about primary care early medical
interventions medical complications we hear about state of good repair and the
condition of their units we hear about tenants and we hear about scooter
parking and these are these are sort of a snapshot of the kind of inquiries that
go through the local counselor’s office through my office and we deal with them
the best we can when it comes to antennas there was a desire for the
local community to have a say in those tenets in those antennas that go on
their building that are less than 15 meters the consultation process is
inadequate as it currently is federally regulated
something we have to work on in the future we used to have medical staff I
think they were general practitioners that would come to some of the buildings
on a regular basis that is no longer the case and when it comes to isolation we
rely on social groups or social capital groups such as unison or luma care or
circle of care to come in and offer various programs and that is something
that if that is embedded as we go forward in the seniors building strategy
I think we’re going to see great success across the city the last thing we want
to do is see the isolation and deterioration of physical health plague
our residents we want to make sure they live in secure and safe residences and
that they’re not in fear of either physical harm or seniors seniors fraud
so these are kind of the themes that that going forward I hope I hope staff
take under advisement but in general I think this is this is a
very good template because the the needs of seniors are unique and by putting
them into portfolio buildings we can really focus on the support services
that that give them the dignity they need the respect they need the health
care they need in the safety of housing that they need
Thanks accounts are pasternak others to speak well it’s not easy okay
Thank You Mara Torrey I’ll be supporting the recommendations in this report I’m
in the city councilor in ward 43 for 12 years now a couple of years ago based on
feedback from my residents and input I put forward a motion asking for another
seniors building in the TCH see portfolio east of Markham Road in
Scarborough there’s currently four east of Markham Road and Scarborough there’s
only three seniors TCH see buildings if you look in the attachment to on that
list of buildings that were originally seniors buildings that are now Mick
one at 4205 Lawrence Avenue East and 4175 Lawrence Avenue East were seniors
buildings since they were converted and continuously I’ve had complaints from
residents in Eastern Scarborough about not enough seniors designated buildings
they want to continue to live on their own in their apartments in mixed
buildings I get continuous complaints from seniors about security the state of
the buildings not appropriate for seniors to be in them one of the other
items on the agenda today deals with wheel trends and one of the largest
complaints I get from seniors that we use will trans and apartment buildings
often they they have trouble getting out of their apartment the elevators trying
to get wheel trans they get down there will trans waits for five minutes and
then they leave and you get to its two strikes and you’re right and then you
have to appeal to get wheel trans service which is one of the loudest
complaints I get from the seniors they talk about security some of the other
social issues in the buildings and they feel they would be much more secure much
more acceptable lifestyle if that is seniors only building so I look forward
to seeing the recommendations in this report coming to fruition thank you
thanks counselor you see deputy mayor viola thank you I want to thank staff
for bringing what I believe it’s part two of a report that we had just a few
months ago on tenants first and I definitely think that we’re moving in
the right direction and right in tune with what the title of this report is
all about with cheers about tenants first what we’re doing in here is
understanding that we have a corporation that has 58,000 units but we have
tenants that are very diverse and that have very diverse needs and what we’re
trying to do as a city is work with our corporation in bringing the support
services that don’t necessarily have to be done by TCH see
but they have to be done in de TCH see buildings to support our tenants so when
we’re talking about supportive housing that we’re doing with so many of our
rooming houses for example in bringing some of the nonprofits to provide
support services for our tenants as we’re doing in here today with our
seniors housing to make sure we have a unit inside the city to provide that
those support services for our tenants and with with other tenants as well that
we need to ensure that we have housing that is well maintained well-kept
but that we as a city don’t leave all this work just to be done by a
corporation but that we come together as a city and saying here’s all the other
support services that it’s needed through other kinds of departments and
other agencies and other levels of government but that we make sure that
our tenants have access to the support service because that’s the only way that
we’re gonna be ensuring that they succeed and I think that’s the direction
where tenants first is taking us is is acknowledging that we have a hundred and
ten thousand residents that live at TCH see that are very diverse and that we
need to acknowledge that diversity and provide the different services as a city
that they need in order for them to succeed so thank you staff for this part
tattoo of this tenants first and looking forward to have it coming back in in
2019 with the financial tools that we need with the approach and the advice
set that we need to ensure that we continue to put tenants first and
service service that the tenants of tcht and also leverage that asset to create
even more housing in our city thanks so deputy mayor barlow anybody else so
wishing to speak at councilors George oh thank you mr. mayor very briefly I just
want to also commend staff with their report
you know most most of the deputies have basically said there we live in changing
times we have to cope with the change of growing demand for senior services
simply because the aging population is increasing
and I’m quite optimistic that there will be some innovative changes that are made
both in the healthcare system I know I attended some meetings last week where
there was a woman I can’t remember her full name she was with the central Linn
organization and she was talking about all sorts of innovative ways of
communicating with seniors and trying to convey the kind of information that they
need to have I had one gentleman say you know we’re looking at better technology
to try and basically deliver services they’re talking about programming
refrigerators so that people can sort of order food right from their home and
it’ll be delivered one person even two commented on using drones to deliver the
food which just it’s kind of you know mind shattering I I just I’m very
optimistic to some very interesting things will be done in the next decade
so I just want to sort of add my support to making sure that we try to implement
some of the recommendations here I mean it’s one thing to have 27
recommendations but the key is to sort of prioritize implementation to try and
maximize the effect that we can have on the most seniors in the short term and
you know implementation is where it’s at I always say like you can that’s where
95% of the solution is so I’m hopeful over the next three to four years we can
in fact implement some of the recommendations being put forward thank
you mister man Thank You counselors George Oh any other
speakers okay well I’ll just say a word because I’m going to introduce as well
on behalf of counselor Fraga doc is this motion that will be put up in front of
you shortly and it it just adds in consideration of a pilot project for the
building she referred to Greenwood Towers at 1:45 Strathmore and other
possible locations for consideration by the staff and I concur in what she said
these are buildings that have had some very unfortunate episodes take place in
them and really draws attention to some of the issues
that exist inside the building they go beyond these fire incidents and that
this would be a good place to look at what I think is the real important step
forward of this report which is the first one really dealt with kind of more
I’ll call it the legalities and the structuring of how you’d have a separate
seniors structure and that’s maybe some of what councillor Fletcher was
referring to early on this one deals more with I think what is really at the
heart of this which isn’t so much creating a separate legal entity but
rather how are we going to deliver a wraparound services to the seniors
because right now they do face a labyrinth of what seems like sometimes
an obstacle course and I’m heartened by the fact this report is the one that
contains reference to the fact there might be an entity established for the
city as a whole to actually coordinate this and do a much better job of
delivering the services to people as opposed to having the silos that we so
often have so I just strongly support this report and like the other
councillors I thank the staff in for all their hard work and it really has been a
very complicated task coming out of the Eagleton task force but I think very
necessary work subject to some fine-tuning obviously but we’re at least
in a chance at least in having an opportunity to proceed ahead now so with
those two things having been said unless there’s anyone else I would move to
consideration of the two amendments we have the first being from councillor
Pasternak which is 165 M bridge being transferred to Rena etc and you have
that in front of you and I’m ready to call the question on that all those in
favor opposed carried and then the second motion which is the one I moved
on behalf of but I moved it quite happily on behalf of councillor Frank
Atticus is the one to do with Greenwood towers and a strategic pilot project for
the seniors and I’ll call the question on that all those in favor opposed
carried and then we have and perhaps we’ll have a recorded vote on the item
as amended all those in favor of item as amended councillor Ainsley Oh sir Bilal
Khan sir Burnside don’t sir Crawford councillor DiGiorgio counts
McMann deputy mayor Holliday Mara Tory councillor Pasternak and councillor
Robinson all those opposed the motion was unanimously thank you
so that would move us along then to item IX 34.5 Scarborough waterfront project
now we do have 19 I guess 18 decadence here and and some of them even have some
of the same family names and that could mean nothing but if there’s
opportunities for sometimes you couldn’t even have people as opposed to the same
family with different points of view but if there’s any opportunity to
consolidate the 19 people you know where people come up two at a time and I’ll
give a little bit of latitude all the time it just it just helps us to keep
moving along because I’m sure there’ll be speakers as well but it’s an
important item and we’ll get right into the deputations and number one on the
list is mr. William Sheehan good afternoon sir you’re most welcome
we have three minutes here’s my nervousness I think to be nervous about
service I was expecting more time it’s been a long time since I’ve done
something like this and so I did a big presentation and then I got here it’s
only three minutes so I whittled it down I’ll tell you what I do because you’re
explaining that is you were already 19 seconds in I’ll start the clock over
again you have a 19 second bonus for nervousness and you can carry on now
thank you the executive committee should reject
TRC Aza submission and instead support metros 1989 master plan for East Point
Park at minimum the committee should be should reject that part of T rca’s EA
that pertains to East Point Park presently the submission aims to
preserve at East Point Park a condition which ta TRC a is already called on page
139 of the draft da an unacceptable risk to public safety
the 1989 master plan however would eliminate that the EA act and T pop
already support the kind of remediation the master plan would provide moreover
paragraph parent and paraphrasing the submissions Draft on which the submitted
EA was was based if if the 1989 master plan was not
implemented at East Point Park then something like the master plan would
have to be implemented thank you sir you had nothing to worry about you use one
minute of your three it’s it’s my understanding that you’ve you’ve all
been distributed copies of my long we have indeed and we thank you for that
very much and that will be part of the record as well and we’ll have a look at
it of course are there any questions of the deputy all right well I thank you
very much for being here today sir thank you very much thank you all right Roy
right right good good day hello my name is Roy Wright
I’ve been living along to Scarborough waterfront for 50 years there’s a
beautiful 2 and 1/2 mile wide Beach to East Point Park it’s a it’s the only
beach it’s the last Beach left in the City of Toronto it’s something to be
cherished cherished and I think with could I have everyone’s attention this
is important because it’s a matter of do we sacrifice a shoreline or not this is
the big question we all can all agree a waterfront trail is great all of them
100% but the problem there is at what cost if there’s a beach which there is
would you soon have the beach a beautiful healthy beach that everyone
uses it allows the only access for people to use use it for boating and
swimming and all the things you’ll go to a beach for we had this speech do we
want a road there or do we want a beach people in Scarborough over a thousand
people supporting us that they don’t this Beach destroyed
so I counselor deber maker gave a motion that with several amendments and one of
them was to save the beach and the other was to reclaim a beach and I’ve taught
to counsel the Crawford and he says he agrees with the idea of saving a beach
so I would like the rest of this committee here today to agree that we
should at least save the beach because there are alternate routes right around
the beach just just so you know what I’m talking
about this is the natural ten thousand twelve
thousand year old shoreline we’re proud of it
and in Toronto should be proud of it I walked the beach just yesterday with my
wife people are loving it down there because they have access to the water
it’s a beach so that so the question is the waterfront roadway that comes along
here do you destroy the beach and destroy the the hiking path or deep do
you do you come along and then just go go along parallel parallel to the beach
but only on the table land where it meets up with the with the trail so what
I’m saying is we should keep the beach the counselors seem to be saying this so
I want to make very a very specific amendment and I appreciate it if you
would take note it’s based on councilor the beer maker and Crawford sir
amendment one along the eastern sector of the project can serve all of the
existing sandy beaches in their present state that’s what I’m asking to be that
specific because the detail the Devils in the details
number two along the hardened Guildwood shoreline that means that the the
roadway creates a Hartman shoreline and you can’t no one can use it for swimming
or boating or any any pleasure and this is a big beautiful lake that people
should be able to use the lake how many of these amendments do you have because
you’re sort of over time now we’re just collect your finish oh yeah yeah just
finish this all right I’m sure it’s one sentence a problem along this is motion
number two along the hardened guild park shoreline construct a headland feature
to facilitate a reclaimed sandy beach with a boat docking facility these are
based on counselor the bear makers so I would really
appreciate if the people here today would say that yes a beach is worth
saving or oryx or its disposable because if you approve this today the whole this
whole shoreline is gonna be eventually destroyed because because every few
years they build a bit more roll all right
well not no mr. right well thank you there may be some questions but we thank
you very much and then we do have some questions starting with our visiting
member deputy Mary DeBary maker great Thank You mr. mayor Roy thank you very
much for coming in today and if you want to sit feel free to sit whatever is best
for you but so in terms of this large project would you agree with me that now
most of the so wheat would you agree that you’re happy that the mouth of
Highland Creek has been left in its natural state yes the mouth of Highland
Creek by the incinerator okay well I just want to make concentrate on saving
this beautiful page well that beautiful beach is part of a
bigger beautiful beach correct oh yeah so we’ve saved great right so we’ve
saved the mouth of Highland Creek the beach yes and we’ve saved the beach over
at the East Point Park what would the TRC a proposal is it
hasn’t saved the sandy beach at grey Abbey trail or well agree about Abby
Park I’ll call it why would they destroy things when there’s a route around it
instead of going along to beat you go about the beach right so so you agree
we’ve saved a lot of the beach but not all of the beach
side I’m just trying to help mr. Roy I don’t think he needs help
from the audience this is his time if you want to speak later you’ll have your
time but if you can respect the speaker then just let them just leave them be so
so we’re I’m just saying see ya sweet so you’re suggesting to us that instead of
I’ll call it paving over the bottom of the bluffs we could take the trail to
the top of the bluffs thank you and you would be happy yeah and many of us would
be happy yes and the beach would still be sandy
and many people would be sent happy to go on a sandy beach correct and I just
want to clarify because some of the report says well maybe in forty to sixty
years from now there will be erosion there and that could endanger some of
the houses in the road in the park that is false information
I’ve lived here so long I’ve dealt with erosion I’ve done erosion control courts
myself let’s say a hundred years time there’s a rollercoaster road yes and
they have to do some work they can do it in very short period of time in fact a
week they just carry it’s a it’s a of counselor Crawford in other words it can
be saved any time if if a roach never became a problem I’m Glen as you know it
doesn’t matter what to do to the waterfront you’re not gonna stop erosion
it’s happening all the crust we’re roadway is so if councillor Crawford
moves the motions out to that effect that we we do further analysis that we
try to protect that sandy beach that maybe in twenty or forty or sixty or
eighty years from now maybe in sixty or eighty years from now we’ll have to do
something but right now your observation is you don’t think it needs to be done
right now certainly no in the next decade or three or four no but even 100
years you don’t need a beach to fix it you do a top fill method the method the
conservation authority uses the method I used the method the conservation
authority used last week in in the gray area Valley okay great thank you thank
you dr. Mary DeBary maker and I have councillor Robinson for questions on
this deputy thank you very much mr. mayor I would just ask you about
shoreline hardening if you look at international examples even local
national examples are our municipalities and cities hardening hardening
shorelines are they try to soften softening them and at this day and age
there’s lots of examples where they have hardened them realizes it was a mistake
years later and not going back to salting them like like it does nothing
to erosion for instance so I think that would answer your question
like the fact that that I’m baking is it is that it see you don’t need to destroy
a beach a sandy beach in the first place well there’s an alternate route so you
would like to see this preserved oh absolutely it should be it is supposed
to be under all kinds of policies es AAS a it’s supposed to be a protected beach
and we trusted the TRC a to enforce those policies but they are the very
ones that aren’t serving the speech it’s up to the the public obviously they
fight hard to try and save this Beach and it’s the only place the people who
come and safely use the water what’s this water fun is totally pardoned there
is no access for the public to use the water like how foolish for this
beautiful fresh water like when you can’t use the water thank you thanks
councillor Robinson counts there where it counts the Crawford County civic man
I assume assumed you’d be putting your hand up at some point countdown Franciso
the councillors Crawford McMahon and Ainslie next by the way thank you for
your your advocacy over the last number of years on this so I’m just again just
picking up where councillor to berry maker was talking about I know you had
conversations with him he’d brought a motion to the TRC a when it was first
well when it actually went to the TRC a so and this is I will be moving the
motion just to let you know but I just want to make sure that you’re fine with
how it’s gonna be I guess worded that and then this it’s about maximizing
maintaining and creating new sandy shore lines including and what’s key is we
want to do a further review of the key sand shorelines such as the gray a B so
this will actually have the conversation isn’t over yet I think you would agree
that your concern of course is that the conversation is over
I’m assuming it’s going to be as some of the other deputies this motion or what
I’m hoping to move will continue the conversation and there will be those
opportunities to work with communities and individuals as we move forward as
part of the process so you’re comfortable with with continuing to move
forward and trying to get to what we all feel is the best
outcome for all the residents I appreciate that very much
councillor Crawford what I’m afraid of this is just another check towards the
approval of destroying this whole Beach because after today if you people don’t
if the council doesn’t approve of the two amendments that I mentioned it’s
going to go now to the Ministry of the Environment and and there and in other
words just going to carry on and they’ll approve it so it would all be a matter
of time before the project is done that’s why it’s important that the
council has to tell the TRC a give them direction to say no we have a beautiful
beach and we want to save it so figure out a way to go around it and that’s
easy to figure it’s already here well I can tell you that I totally agree with
you and I’ll be working with my colleagues to ensure that that I
appreciate that thank you sir Thank You councillor Crawford councillor McMahon
very much and thanks for coming down with your great graphics it’s great for
us to see that so there was a consultation on this right what it was
community consultation on this well there was a process of consultation
three what they call pic meetings public information meetings I’ve attended every
meeting and the public was it was an every meeting was against in fact the
second meeting someone came in with a with a petition of 500 names and do not
destroy the beach and since then of course we got together and said who
wants to destroy the beach no one does so it’s just grown there’s over a
thousand people now so the concept of a consultation isn’t like they’re going to
listen to the public they’re telling us what to do from day one they presented
us with a choice of leave as is they said in other words do nothing or if
they could pave the whole roadway in well in other words they it’s an option
in it’s still an option if the option from day one was to leave as is then
pursue that option conserve the beach and I don’t know why they’ve changed
their option when the public definitely gave them a signal what we’ve seen many
signals that we do not want this destroyed okay thank you very much
Thank You councillor McMahon caster Ainsley thank you three Meritor e do you
know how much that area of so the area above with grabby Beach the bluffs long
there do you know how much it a road si-jess yes every day okay and how much
does it a road I I’ve seen I’ve seen the reports because we’re talking about a
general area the roads about to let’s say maximum a footing here meter okay
because the TRC reports they say the roads three to four feet a year so no
they don’t I read the report one third of a meter
I read the EA report which is part of my foot and I know this because I live
there in fact I’ve experienced at that part right so if it’s if it’s even
eroding at the level that you say it is yes in the next 40 years right it’s
gonna eat well into Morningside in the grabby park above correct well we take
about a hundred years I mean that I don’t know it’s the exact distance we’re
a ton bottom about 150 feet to go on at a foot a year let’s say that’s 150 years
and as I’ve already mentioned if it became a problem with the mains did you
fix it it’s a quick fix right so that’s one of the things that we’re looking at
doing through this process is fixing that erosion to maintain the shoreline
correct that there isn’t an erosion problem and if there was a roadway in
front of this this Beach it wouldn’t stop any erosion it’s going to happen
anyway like like it’s a false argument to say the putting a roadway down here
it’s gonna stop the erosion because the worst erosion is where the roadway has
been put in like anybody knows it well so does not stop the erosion only
capping it stop the erosion right so even if we don’t put a road at the
bottom if we did some type of shore line protection like they’ve done at Sylvan
Park because this needs no shoreline protection it has been it’s been it’s
been looking after it’s offered for twelve thousand years it’s
self-sustaining and that’s the beautiful part and their self maintaining if they
decide to put a roadway that means there’s gonna be all kinds of money
spent not only destroying these expensive headlands that the city’s
already paid for but yeah mr. right even you said a few minutes ago
that it’s it’s a roading at one to two feet a year which is in the report right
if it continues that way for the next 40 years it’s gonna go well into gray Abby
Park yes right the reason that you have that Beach down where it is today is
because of the erosion that’s taken place that’s why we have the center
island islands in the Toronto harbour that was all part of Scarborough Bluffs
originally correct that’s true so you agree we have to do something no
chimera Tori and thank you for never showing up at any of the meetings sir or
meeting with anybody that’s concerned about about this waterfront thank you
very much conference they are there other councillors wish you to ask
questions on this well thank you very much sir we appreciate your time mr.
Wright barb Barbara Wallace uck and Andrea Wallace uck I don’t know if I
pronounce the name improperly if I haven’t I apologize now
our Barbara and Andrea are going to make a presentation
together or separately or how’s that gonna work it separately okay so you are
Barbara thank you for being here and if you would like to proceed with your
three minutes we’d be happy to hear you so I don’t know how many of you have
actually walked the beaches I’m actually going to be talking about the
Scarborough Bluffs and their beaches are an unparalleled treasure they’re the
envy of landlocked cities around the whole world there are many places that
don’t have such beaches the area offers us a true nature getaway with absolutely
astounding vistas I feel so blessed and privileged to be in such a spectacular
environment and there is no rationale from my perspective that could justify
the destruction of such a rare and unique heritage shoreline it is
unconscionable MTR says it wishes to create a waterfront haven for all we
already have a waterfront haven for all there is absolutely nothing to create
mother Nature has created its very best I’m all in favor of creating
accessibility to the water for all but make it a beachfront experience let the
public experience the last true pristine shoreline we all know that Toronto’s
population is increasing year by year councillor Pasternak mentioned the
exponential increase many of Toronto’s beaches are overpopulated in the summer
season with global warming and increasingly sweltering summers
residents want to find respite waiting along a cool sand beach rather than
sizzling on a black concrete path swath by huge boulders and headlands that
offer no reprieve from the heat these headlands are void of any type of
vegetation or trees where people can take shelter and they are as user
unfriendly as the cobblestone beaches with their ankle twisting boulders the
health of Lake Ontario is under threat from a number of factors including
hardened shorelines it is known to lessen the number of organisms and lower
biodiversity we need to maintain the natural shoreline that exists the
dynamics the healthy sand movement and the healthy shoreline habitats birds
plants and animals that call beaches their home need to have their
environment preserved on several occasions I have witnessed poor snapping
turtles tossed around in waves against the armour stone walls
trying in vain to get to a natural shoreline but unable to do so these are
a species at risk we need to stop any construction that will disrupt them
disrupt the balance of forces that shape our coastline yes I do realize that
cyclists would love to have a continuous cycling trail along the waterfront front
but there are oodles of other options to regain access to the waterfront there
are simply places that need to be left undisturbed I live on the bluffs that
you are talking about mr. Ainsley and I am not concerned one bit my house is on
that very bluff I am simply appalled that you would think that we would need
to run Oh ma’am what we do here is we address comments to the chair and
getting upset the rush to say this all right and I’d ask you to wrap up now –
because you’re just a few seconds away from an so ok the rush to save this
pristine shoreline without consideration of better options is unjustified we need
to pull up our kayaks wind surfers paddle boards let our children wade into
the waters and swim let families enjoy weekend picnics on the beach let our
wildlife not be impeded ok can I just say today that executive committee
commanders have taken to heart my concerns please do what’s right for our
environment our children and for generations to come
please do not prioritize a corporate and political agenda ok thank you ma’am all
right were there any questions of that dependent maybe too late all right then
Andrea well Andrea Wallace are welcome and you have three minutes man do your
executive members I’m here today to convince you to preserve the Scarborough
Bluffs and a stunningly beautiful beach that runs from the guild into East Point
Park our population is booming and our infrastructure is struggling to keep up
with the development occurring around us urban parks are part of the city’s
essential infrastructure but our green spaces are rapidly being depleted and
green space is what we need most in today’s hectic and chaotic world we need
to preserve it nature is vital to a person’s mental and
physical well-being alleviating anxiety depression stress etc forget the asphalt
the pavement the concrete enough of our green space is already occupied by such
it sends and angers me to think that a few people who may have never even
walked the length of this shoreline can make decisions to ultimately destroy the
speech area forever we don’t want a paved shoreline with armored stones rock
jetties boulder beaches so many of the constituents have voiced their concerns
and are against shoreline hardening countless of others are still unaware of
the proposed project as I continue to meet all sorts of people who are utterly
dismayed to hear of this plan MTR CA has a mandate to conserve and preserve and
there is nothing more that you can do to make this beach area more beautiful more
pristine and more natural you need to keep it this way I can tell you when I
look at the beach from the top of the bluffs I feel lucky to be immersed in
such a wonderful landscape it parallels the beauty of some of the world’s top
beaches you could save the taxpayers millions of dollars in construction and
millions of dollars for continual yearly maintenance by leaving the beach as is
the money would be better spent on our ever growing senior population health
and education instead create a beautiful headland at the bottom of the guild in
or East Point Park with tree and picnic tables everyone then
including cyclists and handicapped can come down and enjoy ash bridges Bay
bluffers Park Frenchman’s Bay are jammed to capacity in the summer months where
people flock to the beach in the hot weather they lie on the summer towels
were the other towels they sit on their beach chairs they use their kayaks and
wind surfers and have picnics on the sand mtrs ca’s proposed project would
destroy the beach and deny the public this use please don’t tell me that this
project is necessary to prevent erosion of the bluffs we are well aware that the
bluffs continued to erode and landslides continue to be a problem and parking
lots and tennis courts have disappeared west of the guild in where the shoreline
has already been hardened by MTR CA I must add that in the areas that have
been heard and there is all sorts of debris in the water that creates hazards
for anyone entering the water many American federal and state agencies are
doing research to understand the full effects of hard shoreline stabilization
and because of what they’re finding these practices are being phased out I
wonder what we might be adding to our drinking water by adding tons of
contaminated rubble to our lake just have to wonder how our Fish and Wildlife
will be impacted by 15 years of construction if you could come up wiser
now that would be great thank you future generations to be able to enjoy
this beach please don’t demoralize our shoreline by hardening it let’s create a
beautiful beachfront experience for all Torontonians thank you yeah just yeah Oh
all right any questions going once going twice okay mr. Gerard TR boar snakes okay there we go
sir we have three minutes okay my name is Gerard Arbor I have lived in
the bluffs for 25 years due to the short in time whatever I’ll try to cut to the
point as much as I can with respect to great Abbey Beach what Roy said losing
gray Abbey Beach should not be the price paid for increased public accessibility
and some better balance of better sense of balance can be reached between saving
that Beach and erosion control measures well down in the future I hope that gets
considered next up I’d like to talk about the BOD elect effect that we have
at Brimley Road off and on weekends the buffers access to buffers park is closed
at around 10 a.m. mmm everything possible should be done to hasten
improve access to buffers park as soon as possible a significant investment
which may facilitate that in the future is a purchase of a habitat motel which
is an eyesore and a blight on the Kingston Road horizon has been for many
years now I commute to my office every day and it’s it’s unusual for me not to
see police EMS or even forensics there it’s a pretty sad story purchasing of
this particular property right at the top of Brimley Road which is the gateway
to bluffers Park will make an better access down the road perhaps with a
shuttle bus service it could be an information share once bike-share
Toronto comes to Scarborough it’ll be very welcome here that would be a good
hub for it limitations in municipal planning over
from decades ago this you know the Scarborough waterfront was built in the
50s it’s already at capacity narrow dead-end streets and lack of available
parking are not being appreciated as limiting factors for accommodating over
overcrowding there’s issues that we considered with respect to sufficient
parking enforcement staff from parking enforcement by law officers police and
wildlife control for distressed animals out of their normal natural quarters as
a result of this pathway that’s being built along the base of the bluffs
surely there will be more thought for local infrastructure management for
bathroom amenities garbage disposal parks may
it’s orderly and safe visitor conduct as well as animal welfare growing 10 trend
of porta bodies and municipal garbage bins at the top of bluff bluff top parks
is more suitable for a carnival than long-term placements a weekend carnival
Scarborough residents deserve better now I have tried to show the bluff top parks
sign sign everywhere a sign imagine this in a row times 20 that’s
how many signs there are at Scarborough Crescent Park porta-potties next to a
playground garbage bins right next to a beautiful structure in guild park that’s
from last year this is the entrance to Gilbert from the parking lot from last
year sign sign everywhere signs blocking out the scenery dot thought thought
that’s how the song goes alright I’ll just ask you I might know
just to maybe show us one more picture and then we’ll have to wrap up alright
times that lobster Road this is this year officially driver ocean control
project I was on that steering committee in the 90s this has been shoreline
hardened for over 20 years Bluffs erode landslides happen and if
you see the bottom of that that was the that was the pathway at the base
officially drivin the erosion control project that is about eight feet of
material in trees the whole slope 70 feet high has dropped onto that
so in closing build it and they will come people have already built have come
and we’re having trouble accommodating them and there better be a good
insurance policy for the people walking along the base of the bluffs
thank you very much sir the questions of the decadent yes it council really I
thank you mr. chair and thank you very much for coming in today I don’t think
we’ve met but I just as a lifelong resident who’s grew up up and down the
beaches and all of that stuff would you agree with me like when I was at
cathedra bluffs last time there were all those ugly fences there and then the
snow fencing and everything and despite those sign signs everywhere signs I saw
a charming young in their 20s with backpacks on walked
past all the signs and then they helped each other over the fence to go to the
very edge of the cathedra bluffs where they could have died so if we don’t put
up the signs and I agree with you it is I’ll call it sinfully ugly to have a
fence on the top of the majestic Scarborough Bluffs but if we don’t do
that and say your son or daughter had fallen off the bluffs and died wouldn’t
you think you’d be the first one to sue the city or their parents maybe not you
because you’re a reasonable person but the idiots who climb all over the fence
and walk out onto the pinnacle of the cathedral Bluffs
putting their own lives in danger would you agree with me that those would be
the first that’s the type of person who’d sue us as fast as they hit the
bottom sue if there was not in the language of their natural tongue so we
could have more signs with different languages as well but I think just I’m
just talking about a reasonable number of signs and visibility of them versus
what we’re seeing there right and through mr. chair I’m sure you’re are
you aware like I am that we started off with us a very few signs and we used to
have those wooden fences that were two and a half feet high that you and I
could almost walk over you know and we’ve had to escalate it up and up
enough not because we want to make the bluffs ugly but because people human
beings keep ignoring all those signs and the fence I mean now we have fences up
but we need the guard we didn’t and in terms of number of police officers we
would need wouldn’t you agree that the length of the bluffs we would need
dozens of police officers at the top of the bluffs to stop people you couldn’t
just put them and you have to stop people from climbing the bluffs on the
bottom you can put signs down there too but if there was a public education
campaign to stop people from doing that that would be a good idea okay and three
mr. chair would you agree with me you know we have we have the Catholic High
School up at the top of it up at the top of the hill they don’t allow us to let
the public in there to park any cars if we could park two or three hundred cars
in that in their parking lot even if we paid them for it do you think that would
help alleviate some of the congestion that you and I probably experienced when
we try to go down there okay great okay Thank You mr. chair
Thank You deputy under our maker and they their questions councillor Crawford
Thank You mr. Ober just a couple questions so I wasn’t clear in your
deputation do you support the Scarborough waterfront project it’s a
big project and you were talking about a few certain aspects of Aggie support the
project or you just you don’t support that I just want to get a clarification
on I think we’ve talked about you know I support the Scarborough waterfront
project it just there’s a lot of parts of it that are some yeah I agree and and
of course as I mentioned to Rory you’ll support an emotion or agree that emotion
needs to be put in place to further review the key sandy key sandy
shorelines like gray Abbey we need to continue that conversation because we
don’t feel that we’re finished that conversation so you’re supportive that
okay my concern is that this is already an executive council and executive
committee and there’s been numerous opportunities to have these motions
passed when we’re doing the consulting phase but yes I agree with that
okay because and then again we’ll talk about this when we get the questions
just notice in my time mr. mayor I don’t know if it’s been I didn’t do but it was
just I won’t use three minutes but again part of the process is that we we are we
are or counsel will here as part of its support or not support in EA now that EA
has to go after the province and they can determine whether or not they
supports it so this is just sort of a one part of the process that we move
forward to and it also went to TRC a and I just want to really wanted to focus
more on you mentioned about the bottleneck and you’re right bluffers
Park when you’re looking at access that’s it there’s that there are a few
illegal places you can get down but bluffers Park is the only way we can
actually get down and now we we if you I guess you’re aware that we just started
TTC service down there that’s hopefully and it will hopefully go to full time
once the yeah but you mentioned have a nap and I’m just wondering so your
comment so first of all this whole idea of having app and and purchasing and all
that did you send did you bring that to the EA process were they aware of this
idea at all as we went through that to is an idea that’s come up for an
people been discussing okay so and and I was getting the sense from your your
comments about I have an app that it was this as much about trying to get rid of
the have an app which is and I don’t know if people are aware it’s an iconic
unfortunately iconic motel that is doesn’t have a good reputation but part
of this idea was to actually get rid of the have an app I’m assuming as well as
trying to deal with the bottleneck get rid of the havin a lot it’s it’s about
an opportunity there’s one hundred and seventy million dollars in this process
that is proposed here is a great opportunity to produce a gateway to the
bottom of the bluffs I don’t think ideally they have an app
the nonsense that goes there on a regular basis counsel you’re very aware
of it and the news all the time but I don’t think it’s our ideal gateway to
bluffers Park it is a great opportunity for the city to make an investment music
municipal investment on Kingston Road it’s a great investment opportunity to
have a shuttle bus service to have an Information Center an education center a
retail center to sell so the reason I was asking because and you write
everything you mentioned but the complexity of some of the I won’t get
into the details because I don’t have a lot of time I wanna ask one more
question but even just a zoning there’s a lot of complex things that’ll be happy
just another idea but also weren’t you you probably aren’t aware but there’s
actually a private sale about to take place with the heaven up I’ve been
working closely with a developer who is looking actually purchasing to have an
app and part of that is the first thing they’re gonna do is just just just take
it down so that’s actually happening right now
so again it hasn’t happened yet but I just want to make you aware that we’re
in fact looking to purchase the have an app and and and take that off Kingston
Road well that’s great I mean I’m just throwing out ideas counts yeah no I
agree and I appreciate that idea all right Thank You councillor Crawford any
other questions of the decadent alright well thank you very much very much
sherry Lang Trotter wind action I’m probably saying thank you for coming
we have three minutes on the clock for you
good afternoon ladies and gentlemen Executive Council the last time I dip
you today at the TRC I had a nice PowerPoint that I got to slide number
two so I’ll just bypass that you have some paperwork in front of you and I
hope you’ve had a chance to browse through it either before the meeting or
right now I’ll address my comments if you don’t mind to the flaws that I
perceive in the process that I was participating in as an interested
individual and as a community member community activist
the EA that has been presented to you isn’t is presented as a preferred plan
many people question the use of that word preferred preferred by whom it is
not preferred by the community as you’ve already heard well over a thousand we’ve
never heard a comment in our personal experience that is in favor of paving
the last natural remaining shoreline of Toronto it’s a jewel of Toronto it’s
really a statement for the future in my view of how we feel about Toronto’s city
of Toronto’s environmental commitment if we decide today that oh it’s 20 years in
the making we won’t have the money to do it or for whatever reason we’d put it
off to the future today is an opportunity to endorse that we
appreciate sandy beaches in the city of Toronto which I know we do so I just
like to also point out that I was at many of the meetings and universally
with within 98% of the people speaking to the issue they were not in favor of
the beach being paved or created into a service road or hardscaped hardscaping
as a term that we’ve all become very familiar with it is universally
considered something that shoreline communities are now disengaging from
they are unhardened even in Conestoga very various conservation boards across
Ontario are looking at ways to unhardened or soften their their
approaches to erosion it doesn’t work the erosion has a dynamic process and it
moves around the other thing I just wanted to mention is the cost and what I
feel in I live about four blocks from from the bleep from the beach and it’s
very concerning that the community would have to suffer you know 12 to 15 years
of C and D construction and demolition debris which contains arsenic lead
cadmium PCBs you can’t scrub that stuff out they call it clean Phil but that
stuff is still there as we know from studies from the Leslie spit so do we
want another Leslie spit in Toronto personally I don’t want another Leslie
spit I also think there are creative solutions trailblazing and trail making
that have not possibly been addressed in this plan I would love to see all of
that redress I don’t think that’s going to happen but save our beaches
absolutely so that’s my position and if as Roy has mentioned this has long legs
we will we will have other avenues I would like to thank councillor Crawford
and a bear maker for their interest in meeting with community members I’m
really deeply appreciative of that so that’s my statement don’t make another
Leslie spit please I beg you and keep our beautiful beautiful Beach
you have to come and see it it is remarkable we have visitors coming from
the UK and they said did you come to see we were down there we’re down there a
lot did you come to see the bluffs no they said we came to see the beach and
there they are no matter what the weather
and then we thank you on that positive note we’ll ask you to conclude and thank
you very much for being here we’ll see if there’s any questions are there any
questions okay thank you very much oh you have a question Castro oh oh we’re
the group that spearheaded the fight against the offshore turbines that were
planned from the Lesley spit all the way up to Ajax and we got five more Toria
votes starting with the TRC a they were our first moratoria vote so we’re very
grateful to them for that and we ended up with an offshore moratorium which is
now they they they really studied around the world as 20% of the world’s
remaining freshwater so that’s the group that that is we do a lot of community
activism under that title yes thank you all right any other questions fine then
we’ll move on very much Thank You Robin packing pack
Queen sorry if I’ve mispronounced your name you’re most welcome
you must welcome here and you have three minutes yeah I don’t know if it’ll get
on the screens but I can okay place it right on there there we go got it
very good all right we’ll start the clock now and we thank you for coming
great thank you hello my name is Robin / King and I am
speaking to you as a representative of the growing community of Great Lakes
surfers although the sport of surfing may not
seem like a priority to policy and decision makers of Toronto I do wish to
mention that there are currently over 3,000 individual surfers in the Great in
the Greater Toronto Area and more found within southern Ontario allow all of the
shores of the lower Great Lakes some of us have been surfing locally here in
Toronto for over 25 years we are more than just surfers we are professionals
home and business owners we are taxpayers voters entrepreneurs and
families with children with surfing having recently been added to the 2020
Tokyo similar Summer Olympics Surf Canada Nationals took place at Pacific
Rim National Park Reserve on Vancouver Island BC earlier this month to
determine the very first Canadian athletes to have the opportunity to keep
to compete internationally for Team Canada throughout the TRC A’s push for
city and public approval of the Scarborough
waterfront project the surf community had raised our concerns with respect to
the destruction of lighthouse a very significant and rare surf break in the
City of Toronto that creates sizable and quality waves on the southwest wind
waves at Lighthouse have been closely compared to those found in ocean
settings and there’s there are not many places like this on the Great Lakes and
the singularity of this wave is especially unique to Toronto lighthouse
surf break is look is adjacent to bluffers Park marina exactly where the
proposed western segment of the teeth of the TRC is refined preferred alternative
is located this area should be protected by the
City of Toronto for its uniqueness training ground and the advancement of a
growing and recognized sport for Canadians and expats from surfing
communities around the globe in addition to lighthouse destruction
the TRC A’s proposed headland node which is in the shape of a catcher’s mitt
stands to create dangerous structural rip currents and undertow along bluffers
Beach on east and southeast winds as confirmed by Bruce Halliwell of the
Toronto Police Marine lifeguard unit headlands already installed at both
bluffers Park and Ashe bridges Bay beaches which are smaller than the
proposed developed headland already caused significant undertow and rip
current conditions which are extremely dangerous for unprepared swimmers with
added capacity and crowds that are in line with the entire project the influx
of swimmers or pedestrians near the proposed headland comes without a risk
of of drownings we sent many emails formed petitioned formed petitions
within the local surf community to raise awareness attended the tea rca’s public
information center and set up a meeting on June 19 2017 with his tea rca’s
project team Nancy Gaffney mellow strum and Anneliese grief the TRC acknowledged
that individuals from the surfing community reached out to their
organization about the project in early 2016
but the TRCA did not follow up with or engage with the concerns of the surfing
community as a stakeholder group we believe that the TRC has plan does not
take it into full consideration all of the communities who will be directly
affected negatively by the Scarborough waterfront project we wish for the TR
State for the TRC a to revisit their solutions to the development of the of
the Toronto Waterfront so it may both so it may benefit both recreation on land
as well as those who are in the water and I’ll have to ask you just to wrap up
now if you would thank you very much for the executive committee and to you Donna
Tori fur thank you so much are there questions
all right well hearing none oh thank you very much for your patience and for
being here today and we appreciate that mark Matson president Lake Ontario water
keeper thank you your worship members of the committee Lake Ontario
water keeper is a charity that’s working for swim
drinkable fishable water we’ve been involved in Scarborough waterfront
project since 2016 our comments were twofold at the time one was to expand
water quality monitoring from the bluffers Beach right across this whole
11 kilometre width which is under the study and secondly was to protect great
point Gabby and East Point I think it’s really important for the council to
remember that we came up with this issue really became a crisis in the late 80s
Toronto produced what was called the Royal Commission for the future Toronto
Waterfront regeneration it’s a great name regeneration and in that study that
were some really important recommendations made particularly with
respect to shoreline number one if you go to page 173 protection of the
remaining natural areas seventy percent of the shoreline between Burlington and
Scarborough is already hardened second was to rehabilitate the degraded areas a
mechanism for considering commute cumulative environmental effects and
improvement of access and recreational opportunities Toronto at the time when
they produced this report had people coming from all across the Great Lakes
in fact maybe all across North America because Toronto was a leader Toronto was
seen was the freshwater capital of the world nine watersheds running through
from the Oak Ridges Moraine to Lake Ontario or 20% of the world’s surface
freshwater it was and people wanted to learn from this document unfortunately
it has gathered a lot of dust and here we are today looking at a second best
option where we’re really thinking about paving over grey Abbey the beach it’s
pretty clear that there are shoreline issues and I know TRCA has done a great
job and I support the proposal but I just want to quote one thing that came
out in 1973 as we were moving from an era of destruction to an era of
restoration Toronto said this the old way of doing things has proven hollow
and sometimes quite destructive though we have not yet learned the rules for
the new ways of doing things we are in the age of in-between I think we’re
still in the age of in-between and I think this committee should
indicate to the TRC a the paving that beach at this time is the wrong way to
go there are better options there are better ways to think
about this and there is a lot more work to be done and I think if you did pave
it from what I’ve noticed and I’m on the Great Lakes Guardians Committee I’m on
the ijc Great Lakes Water Quality board with Waterkeeper Alliance I’ve been on
the board for 15 years we have 300 groups around the world I can tell you
that something like this would never even get off that the starting blocks in
California and Long Island in the Gold Coast and what we need to do is look to
the future we don’t have applause in the air we know I don’t need but I really am
out of time but I just want to say I think you’re all this is a really
important issue I’m really glad you’re giving time to the community to come
forward and I hope the TRCA can move forward without paving this Beach thank
you very much thank you know there might just be some questions mr. Madsen so we
have councillor Robinson and then we have I think I saw a constant hand up
today or not no councillor Robinson thank you very much mr. mayor just by
chance I happen to have a meeting with some of the folks actually the former
head of the Great Lakes mayor’s Association I think the mayor’s met with
some of those of his colleagues on these matters as well
and it was about another matter but I brought this up and I guess what my
understanding is that is as a best practice across the globe were actually
moving away from shoreline hardening to softening is that would you say that’s
an accurate description of kind of a movement around the world
yeah it’s taken a long time I mean decades we’ve learned from what’s
happened in the past I noticed in the regeneration document it talks about all
the damage that’s been done by hardening the shorelines it’s actually starved our
wetlands of sediment it’s destroyed other areas when you harden one area can
cause problems in other areas and it really doesn’t it doesn’t take into
effect the natural habitat and the ecosystem approach so we’ve learned from
that and I think other communities understand the economic social and
cultural impact importance of having clean water and connections for their
community to Wilderness and Wildlife so yeah the world is moving very quickly in
the other direction and I think Toronto at one point was
ahead of the crowd but now we’re falling behind and I think this decision really
will dictate which direction Toronto’s going in in the next decade or so okay
and so basically I think what you’re saying is that it basically dramatically
alters the ecosystem of any Lake no matter where this happens that has been
the science that’s what we’ve learned that’s what the scientists have learned
and that’s why communities are changing the way they originally did things where
you know we’re starting to understand that it’s a lot like the weather it
changes all the time you can’t do anything about the weather it’s the same
when you have natural habitat and Wildlife and a great great lake like we
have here in Toronto you can’t control everything you have to build in
resiliency you have to respect it and you have to do what you can to really
work with it but the idea that you would just put something in willy-nilly like
just start putting a cement road on one of the last remaining natural habitats
in Toronto’s waterfront is really the mistake that we’ve made in the past then
we’re learning from okay thank you very much thank you counselor thanks Council
Robinson councillor McMahon thank you very much for coming in I’m always
mesmerised by your tweets so you’re showing us that book and what year was
that from 1991 December and so we do you think we should be updating that book or
just using what we wrote back in the day it’s still applicable well it’s still
the book you know I know um mr. Crombie’s behind me and mr. combi has
written and he was the chairman he’s written a number of reports in Hamilton
Oshawa Toronto did a lot of really pioneering work at the waterfront trust
has followed as well really connecting people to their watersheds this book had
many scientists politicians community groups it’s an amazing blueprint for the
future of Toronto’s waterfront and what needs to be done I just find it odd that
we no longer look to it I mean it really did talk about the economic impact of
having a clean waterfront and water long before Walkerton long before many of the
other disasters that were purring now in the great lakes including
Toledo shutting down its drinking water the issues in Flint so I think this book
really is a starting point for anybody who wants to start thinking about
changing or altering shorelines in Toronto is to go back to this book read
it and get up to speed on where we’re at and where the science is and what
Toronto can look like in the coming decades ok and then what do you think
happened like how did it how did we get here you know that we weren’t
considering that in this plan and they were and we are where we are today with
yeah I I think that we underestimated just how many people have been
disconnected from the lake believe it Sun swimmable we no longer have a
fishery on Lake Ontario st. Lawrence Market was once one of the largest fish
markets in Canada and it just had fish from Lake Ontario the old piers are
still on the back of the st. Lawrence Market and you can’t buy a fish from the
lake anymore so I think we underestimated just how many people have
come disconnected from the lake and so the voice wasn’t strong enough but I
think it’s coming back I heard I just heard from the surfers people are using
the water now year-round you don’t see it as cold there’s new technology in
terms of the wetsuits you can go down to the waterfront water quality monitoring
is year-round in Toronto I think the Millennials are really
demanding a city that they can live in more than just the city where they can
have a job so I think it’s coming I see it everywhere I see it from the left the
right Republicans Democrats conservatives NDP so I think so I’m
during fish is something we can all agree to but it’s taken a while because
it’s because we did things a certain way for 30 40 years and we have to change
that now and that’s not easy and so it’s going to take leadership but I think the
people are going to lead and politicians will follow and I think that’s what’s
happening today okay thank you very much thank you other questions of the deputy
well I have no questions that just take issue with you saying the water’s not
cold having spawned in there one time you can
get scold me about now sir and get these new wetsuits oh yeah yeah okay
mister thank you very much for coming by mr. Manson Jane Fairburn
can you hear me loud and clear ma’am you have three minutes thank you first of
all my name is Jane Fairburn I’m a lawyer in Toronto and I’m the author of
along the shore rediscovering Toronto’s waterfront heritage I’m currently
working on another book on landscape incidentally called longing for the land
your worship first of all just quickly I want to
thank you today for listening and I mean that sincerely because that hasn’t
always happened in this process sadly enough so I’m really happy about that
another thing I want to sort of say is just quickly the Honorable David Crombie
is behind me and you’re gonna hear from him next about the waterfront trail and
that the waterfront trail is great and I don’t think there are many people behind
me that dispute that Marx talked about the waterfront trail if you search the
back of the book and along the shore there probably I don’t know how many
references would be to the waterfront trail it’s an amazing thing
it’s just though that sometimes it’s not appropriate to put it in an
environmentally sensitive area one that’s been recognized by the province
and in fact has the the TRC a zone authored report from 2012 recommends
never touching gray Abbey Beach and yet here we are and you know I’m not sure
how we got here I I don’t dip my foot into politics very often but I felt that
it couldn’t stay silent on this so if you go to the regeneration document
itself that marks already referred to if you go to page 179 one second you go
right down to the bottom here’s what it says about the trail in areas of
ecological sensitivity or on private lands with a Greenway a continuous trail
may not be possible and I think we need to not just sort of skip
for that that was said and I think it’s still very relevant today now I just
want to get into how we got here again which is a little mystifying that we’re
talking about something that to my mind and to a lot of Torontonians is beyond
the pale paving over a twelve thousand year old beach we’ve been sold three
things or we’re being asked to swallow three things and you’re gonna be asked
them today one of them is access we’re told that that access is increased by
taking away our access to the water so you know I’ve always said you know it’s
sort of a logical inconsistency access to the beach cannot be improved by
obliterating the beach it’s not logical second point erosion I agree there’s
erosion okay some you’ve heard from some people erosion there’s erosion
I think what’s uh what’s not sure is the rate of erosion because we’re we’re
talking about paving this beach the bluffs are much lower the the majority
of them are recessed from the water so that needs to be looked at but there is
some erosion the thing is though it this we need to
recognize that erosion has been dealt with in very creative ways by the TRC a
in the past and they continue to do that now you said you had three points and
that was exactly so yes make the third then we have to wrap up
environmental destruction we can’t play God on this project with the greatest of
respect the TRC a says we can tear it all down and then we’ll fix it up and
you know that’s that’s again not an appropriate way to go when we have this
beautiful natural resource thanks very much thank you very much
on that note and we’ll have a question from councillor Robinson thank you very
much mr. mayor so you’ve written a book yourself about Toronto Shores through
your research what did you learn about the health of the lake and the
importance of beaches well specifically with respect to Toronto you know the
definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and
expect a different result this is not new for
Toronto we’ve done this for 150 years at least we’ve we’ve we’ve unfortunately
sacrificed our shorelines a lot and you know what the buck needs to stop and you
have the power to do that this doesn’t have to go to a full council you are our
protectors here and we need you to listen to this but this is not an
appropriate place for the trail the waterfront trail already exists make no
mistake about it it’s just not on the beach right now can I also ask you just
about the waterfront trail you know given its current position on what’s
being proposed what would you recommend for the trails placement or positioning
or do you have any thoughts around that sure I have thoughts I mean my primary
recommendation is that it definitely not go on the beach which is quite it’s it’s
it’s sort of a sacred line and a dynamic between the water and the shore right
now and if you put a raised platform up there of concrete debris saury clean or
not you’re going to obliterate that connection and it’s gone forever my
preference would be that it remain outside of the park but you know I think
there’s probably some discussion to be had around there I also researched
options the TRCA I think incidentally says that that might not be possible to
put it in the park but the the logical thing that comes out of that is not
therefore that it has to go on the beach because it already exists on secondary
roads all around that area okay so secondary roads is one off
that’s where it is right now okay thank you thanks councillor Robinson
councillor Crawford Thank You mr. mayor and thank you very much for coming in
June so I just want to clarify you’re not necess and and you’re not
necessarily against the Scarborough waterfront project as a whole because
there’s a lot of good things happening we’ve never said that no I actually
agree with more access and I think we should work to more it’s much more
access I just I just wonder why Beca because I totally agree so you’re really
focusing now on really the gray Abbey Beach the East Point Park which is from
Guildwood kind of East I guess that whole area it’s
yes that correct and in Eastpointe incidentally is the end of the Scarb
laughs that’s the lowest point so the bluffs are much lower and hence the
erosion is it’s a different situation it’s not at all like what you see in
those pictures there’s much lower so and again what I’m trying to do again yeah
if you have I’ve been there you’ve been there and maybe a lot of the people here
haven’t so I’m just trying to paint a bit of a picture for them so that which
is an incredibly important part that that’s stretch now you agree that the
TRC as they went through the process there was a preferred option one
preferred option two the first option was to pretty much hard in that whole
surface when they came back they I forget that I’m gonna have to ask staff
but they said we will we’ll put the path up top for a certain I think it’s maybe
a mile I’m not too sure how long it was but there’s a smaller section in at the
the gray Abbey Beach that they’re looking to to harden now so I just want
to because and and you’ll agree with me that if you look at that whole area 11
kilometers we probably harden 75% in the past for very whether it’s erosion
control or others I don’t necessarily agree with it I know you don’t but
understanding that 75% already has been hardened easily we’re only focusing now
on a smaller portion it’s an important portion you know again it’s all a
numbers game my view is we’re focusing on a little less than a kilometer of
area which is still significant and in terms of what the TRCA was recommending
mark and I and and somebody else met with the TRC a I invited them to the
Toronto hunt and they came and the recommendation was well we can will pave
half of it how about we do have and I specifically said no that’s not
justifiable under any conditions I was very clear about it and now we are
talking about paving like a third of it so you know to kind of say they started
from a hundred percent i that was one of the options but that was never put out
there at the beginning to anyone in a serious way at least from my perspective
ona and I agree a hundred percent with you thank you okay I just have one
question just arose I have an experience I had
this past weekend because I went with cop counselor Fletcher to announce the
redesign of and construction on what was the missing link when you made that
quote out of the book 750 meters that previously caused people have to go off
onto a road it’s a different set of circumstances but one of things I said
in my remarks was because I’d read about it that the TRC a and others that design
firms the city had all gone to huge lengths to make sure they could
accommodate what were their sensitive wetlands and various things habitat for
trees different bushes and species and so forth and my question is this do you
think it is impossible in this setting to have that kind of care taken and I
made the point we spent more doing it’s gonna cost 850 thousand whereas it might
have cost a lot less you hadn’t had all the features that made this
environmentally sensitive is it impossible to do anything along lines of
what’s being discussed here and preserve you know the what you want to see for
the beach well there is no amount of money or know how to design or
sensitivity that could no I mean those are man-made processes that go in this
is an educational opportunity for Torontonians for generations to come and
it’s pure access to the water I might add it’s at least my position the
Torontonians have a right to access the water and right now with that goes
through access is denied its effectively denied because of that raised concrete
platform and there’s no dynamic tension then between the water and the people I
don’t know how many people have actually walked out one of the representatives I
see here from the TRC a indicated at an earlier meeting that she’d actually
never been down to the shoreline but many of us have and when you’re there
there’s nothing that replaces that no man-made or sorry that’s not the correct
word anymore but no person made structure can replace the natural world
that’s that’s a very sacred thing in today’s society okay thank you very much
mr. Everett and next as advertised is the owner
daven Crombie from the waterfront regeneration trust thank you very much
your worship members of the Executive Committee
I’m here representing the waterfront regeneration trust 25 years ago the
waterfront regeneration trust made a recommendation that there be a
continuous waterfront and Greenway for the whole length of was ethical and
metropolitan Toronto and therefore the Toronto Waterfront and beyond and that
was accepted by all governments of the day and I just take 30 seconds it’s been
a roaring success the waterfront trail that was recommended has been a roaring
success across the whole of the province it now connects 140 communities and
First Nations 21 conservation authorities
it’s 2,600 kilometers long now it goes from sooo Saint Marie to Quebec it’s it
links up five by national heritage rivers 415 waterfront parks 125 beaches
65 conservation areas and 26 national and provincial parks and three UNESCO
biosphere is I’ve put all that in to put this debate in perspective this has been
an enormous initiative by three levels of government and endless communities
for 25 years and so the idea was to have a continuous waterfront Greenway that
would try and be a vehicle for bringing together the issues of ecology economy
and community and worked them out now but when it comes to this project a
couple of things I would ask the council to think about our job at the waterfront
regeneration trust was not to build these things ourselves but to create the
circumstance by which they were done and we therefore always had to assure
ourselves whether or not there was a thorough enough public
process first of all secondly whether this was backed by science the
recommendations that were coming forward backed by science and expertise and in
this connection I have no no trouble saying to you the process the process
the public process has been thorough 25 years to my certain personal knowledge
but let me go back to 1967 when the metropolitan waterfront plan at that
time 51 years ago made the right same recommendation that there be a
continuous waterfront trail in green way and in 1971 they asked the conservation
authority to implement it now it seems to me that any rate and I understand the
passion the concern and these are people I know and love but let me say this
they’ve sort of taken this report and and that there’s a little part of it
that they missed and I think it may bear on how you approach it because we have
very specific recommendations in this report in its connection for the whole
of the waterfront trail for Scarborough and we said this policies in the report
policies should take into account the environmental vulnerability of
Scarborough Bluffs and the Rouge River Valley and outlined ways to acquire
maintain and provide public access to the land along the waterfront and up the
river valleys and create a two-tiered trail one at the top of the bluffs and
the other at the base of the water’s edge so the idea that somehow there this
was lost that was a very specific recommendation that the conservation
authorities been trying to pursue since 1971 so as a thorough process surely
it’s time to move on your worship surely it’s time to move on thank you
[Applause] you were kind enough not to take
advantage of the former mayors privilege which I was gonna give you to go on
indefinitely but I don’t mean that I’m sure there may
be some questions for you though that you’d recognize that would be unfair to
all the other people but I was just kind of watching the clock and figuring well
he’d be finished when he’s finished are there questions for mr. Crump yes deputy
mayor DeVoe right here mr. chair or your worship and to you your worship
another one of the recommendations in your report I think was the
establishment of a joint national provincial park in the Rouge Valley is
my memory correct that’s correct I think most people laughed at you and thought
you and others were crazy but we were but it turned out okay and and now and I
say with great respect because I love the waterfront trail because it is a
spectacular thing that happened that he and many people thought would never
happen or couldn’t happen or it would end it the Scarborough Pickering border
and never go on past that but would you agree with me that when you look at the
Scarborough Garber toronto mississauga border we actually do have a waterfront
trail through Sam Smith Park it goes up down to tip-top tailors we now have it
off the road it goes through the city it goes through Commissioner Street all off
road it goes to the balmy Beach Club a spectacular ride that you could take
six-year-olds with you on but then it goes from the balmy Beach Club up to
Kingston Road and with zigs and zags through a bunch of residential streets
that probably you and I wouldn’t feel comfortable walking on or bicycling
would you agree that the trail sort of dead ends almost isn’t dead end but it
the waterfront part of the trail doesn’t exist in Scarborough well I guess two
points if I could for you your worship to the councillor the important thing
when we started was to get a continuous trail and Greenway now it was clear
because there’s lots of privately owned property corporately owned property some
public some violated levels of governments and agencies was very
complicated so we didn’t call it or water’s edge trail we call it a
waterfront trail because that gave it far more scope when there are certain
areas for good and sufficient reasons you
and do anything we took to the roads and that’s been the way all the way right
the whole 25 years but at the same time trying to move it as back as as best we
can back to the waterfront where people could understand the importance of a
relationship between land and water so it’s not it was not because we chose to
go on the streets necessity took us there but it took us away from the goal
that we intended and do intend and that is to have a continuous waterfront trail
and Greenway so then then you’re here at one level you’re a submission to us is
that although Scarborough’s the part of the waterfront that doesn’t have a real
trail on the waterfront that it would be a good investment of say 170 million
dollars which is in this report if it’s a hundred and seventy million dollar
investment you think it’s worth the money to connect the entire City of
Toronto on its waterfront I have no idea about the pricing I have not talked
about them I don’t know about the money I do know that from the beginning with
Scarborough was the most difficult and and that’s why it’s the it’s the one
link we don’t have in metropolitan and in Toronto and indeed or long the rest
of the waterfront it’s not as if other people don’t have precious very
important in heartfelt understanding of their own natural environments we went
through Rattray marsh that there’s a trail through ratray marsh man that was
the iconic place right so every part of this watch I went through they the
linkages we’ve made for 28 600 kilometers many of those are awfully
powerful battles going on locally about the importance of them this is not the
only one all right so the Scarborough Bluffs iconic you betcha but I can also
take you to places who they think that their local iconic structure is also
something to be protected and enhanced so all I’m saying at the end of the day
how do we actually solve that well you solve it by having an appropriate public
process bring the science and the expertise together with the community
and so the conservation authority appointed that appointed and asked to be
the implementer comes forward with a recommendation our job is saying was the
process long enough good enough yes as a science and technology
and the expertise there yes and that’s why we’re saying we support it okay
great thank you your worship deputy mayor berry maker councillor
Ainsley I think had some questions Thank You meryt Ernie mr. crumb ease in your
comments I thought I heard you say that you thought that the public consultation
that took place for this process we’re looking at today you thought it was at
an appropriate level well that’s my understanding I I was not at the
meetings but I’ve done the same way we’ve done it for the 25 years we look
at the reports for those who are officially responsible for making them
and if they’re in those reports as they’d done it and we look around and
make sure we’ve got enough information evidence then we go with that the
official report at the end of the day we’ll just keep on talking about I can
guarantee you I can guarantee you there to fight oh god if I could live another
10 years I’ll give back you would be saying what we got this so from my point
of view we’ve done as much as we can do in terms of the process and we’ve
listened to the experts and the people we asked implemental had made their
recommendation that to me is sufficient okay and when when you look at the plan
that’s or the a that’s before is today’s so there’s one area from the mouth of
Highland Creek over to the to the Rouge you know it’s a very environmentally
sensitive area as much of it is but it has swallows nesting on the face of the
bluffs we were supposed to have a trail along the bottom and we moved it up to
the the table lands at the top which I thought was a good compromise I think
the TRC a was a good compromise would you agree with that early yes I did and
that’s why it seemed to me at the end of the day we had to decide whether we
support that report we thought the process had yielded some sense of
balance of a while you go through in a perfect world there is lots of things
could happen but if you’re trying to bring together ecology economy and
community you’ll always find that each one of them will not be a hundred
percent all right thank you thank you meritorious thank you Katherine’s day
and I had councillor Crawford thank you mister me I just won’t do a chat a bit
about process stuff so everybody’s clear on process of what’s happening so we
have an EA before us we spent a number of
going through that the recommendations are here this will be going off from
here if we support orange well if we support this off to the Ministry of the
Environment and climate change and they all determine themselves the
appropriateness of this so they could turn around and go no and then
everything dies I’m assuming at that point but so if we say no either today
or full council this whole process everything that has happened it pretty
much is gone even though and I’ve heard from a lot of the deputies there’s some
good things in here we may disagree on certain aspects but I think generally
there’s a lot of good work that we want to go in here so from your perspective
process wise you wouldn’t want to see all this work go to waste
well I haven’t no indeed you point out I heard earlier councillor Crawford this
is a part of a process and you’ve got the power to stop it here at the city
but on the other hand there may be ways in which other people have raised we can
deal with the issue but if you stop if you stop the process that won’t happen
so it’s important it’s important from your perspective to continue with the
process which is supporting this ei yes but looking at and they’ll see you’ll
see a motion coming from me – we need to do some more work here because I think
more work can be done on specific parts of that I’m a little bit of you on my
liability here but because I’m not sure what else could be done but I think I
have no difficulty if somebody wants to say look let’s let’s move this forward
let’s accept the the application to the province and and if there’s an addition
but not not so that objects and and and stops the process yeah there’s an
addition saying would you kindly look and see what else could be done but it
does not it does not hold the process back then that seems to me it’s not a
bad and then we even we supported here more than likely it goes off gets the EI
that’s gonna take about a year for them to come back and it’ll be positive or
negative it’s positive then at that point we still have to to fund this and
170 million dollars so then that will be another challenge of how do we you know
it’s a city first of all one Oshin by the way is to ensure that
there’s provincial and federal partnerships this is not happening
without that so the funding will be another component of this larger project
it’s gonna take 15 to 20 years I’m assuming to get done absolutely you’re
building trails it’s it takes decades and generations okay but again we’re
partway through a long process and we need to continue that from your beyond I
would think that stopping this process would be the worst of options thank you
thanks council Crawford we have councillor deputy mayor Holliday with a
question hello thank you for speaking to us today
I wondered you mentioned something that was important to me in that and it was
the connection between a waterfront trail and the river valley systems or
the valley systems yeah so because of that would you say that this is really
part of a regional trail system rather than just about the waterfront it’s it’s
about the city itself is it well for sure absolutely as a matter of fact I
mean I understand I didn’t have the time to go in nor should i but the idea of
having the trail and Greenway of course was the way which we linked to the river
balance the basic bone structure of Toronto and metropolitan Toronto or a
larger Greater Toronto Area or the river valleys on the water front that’s that’s
how it works and and so it was clearly we were going to be able to now have a
vehicle along the waterfront that would be able to deal with the river valleys
which is why it’s spun off at that time time the discussion over the Oak Ridges
Moraine right married to it also with the Niagara Escarpment so all of that is
of course relates to the waterfront yes it’s a regional and the province of
course supported it from the beginning I understood I as I went through some
similar work in the West End in Etobicoke is a regional issue Humber Bay
absolutely so on that note I the file itself is called the Scarborough
waterfront trail but would you agree that maybe it could be named the Toronto
friend trail yeah there are some people yes about the Ontario we have and I’d
even say the National well the Tory no I there there there is trouble with names
we have the marginal Edmond trail we’re not sure where that he came from a lot
of people know who Martin Goodman was he was editor of the Toronto Star so
they’re historic reasons for names but only go in certain parts
it’s like Yonge Street I can take it 1,100 miles it used to be a young Street
but they have different names you go along and that may be for a while
because there’s a lot of local pride in this that was it is agreed a lot of
local pride nice things so we our policy has been to go with the names that folks
want rather than one that we think would be nice but but to be fair enough it
because it connects with the River Valley systems and the trails that are
there it actually connects to the Trans Canada Trail what it would it be fair to
say that what we’re talking about today is of national importance well it is a
national importance in fact our general rubric under our policy terms now this
is the Great Lakes waterfront trail and it because it includes all five Great
Lakes we’re on our third Lake now as I say we’re up enthusiam ring thank you
thank you said every merit counts the Robinson Thank You mr. mayor I’ll be
very brief just you in your original deputation you talked about next sir you
took from one of the reports and you talked about a two-tiered trail you’ll
recall just could you just for the purpose of this committee
tell us where you would like to see this trail in this section be placed or
positioned I wish I could okay it’s beyond my company okay we thought our
job was to have what’s the idea but that’s why I spent so much time on
talking about listening to the evidence from science and experts when you still
need to depend on them they need us to say it’s a really good idea let’s do it
they show us how okay I don’t you don’t have a specific position no no no all
right thank you very much that’s what I was
well any more questions from any other members if I could just ask one besides
I did I hear you’re saying a few minutes ago that you were gonna come back here
in ten years yes I’m I’ll take you on John remember I was
your campaign manager I think all be great I’ll be long gone by then but so
1976 yeah that’s it can I just ask you this because it really falls on
counselor Robinson’s question because I I you know I think you’re here with the
obviously the best of intentions having not just as I’m in no position to really
judge all these things in terms of the technical aspects of what’s done where
and what isn’t done where I think you’re here to say though that the
recommendation here that is just to go forward as councilor craft was saying to
the environmental assessment people is one that you’re content within the
context of your overall concern for an involvement in the waterfront which
extends beyond just having trails that are continuous but rather goes to the
protection what did you call it the ecology community economy and community
so I trust that this under that test ecology economy and community meets the
test as best you can determine yeah the point being anybody who wants to do look
after the economy that’s one thing all by itself or ecology all by itself or a
community need all by itself there simple relatively simple trying to bring
them together that’s the tough work okay thank you very much thank you so we now
go to Deepak Mather well he was dropped out so what are we
doing here ladies and gentlemen there’s a little bit of confusion I’m sorry I
was going to help someone out and I thought there was a presentation which
is not mine I thought I was next after that are you deep Beck Mather I am sir
right and so you are next and we’re happy to
put that over and have you call it come in a few minutes if you’re not ready or
you’re already perfect thank you very much you’re most welcome
and you have three minutes so I’m TPAC Nathan I’m speaking for the wild Bluffs
and thank you for this opportunity since 1970 our planet has lost 50% of its
wildlife any 2020 projections are equally dire to lose two-thirds of our
wildlife the primary reason has stated by the
World Wildlife Fund is loss of habitat that means there is no place for the
animals to live bank swallows are already part of a species recovery
program at the provincial and federal level passing swp will almost certainly
lead to the extirpation of bank swallows and the bats this will have massive
detrimental impact and other species as well which are on the provincial Species
Act risk and call the bluffs they’re home migratory birds have been using the
bluffs as a resting point for eons snapping turtles are in serious decline
province-wide and they live in the bluffs but can no longer access the
shoreline in many places due to the armored stone blocking
access passing the swp is essentially a death warrant to the animals in addition
to the impact in the wildlife there is a financial burden that we undertake
because to build and maintain this park will be huge the capital cost for this
infrastructure is going to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars in
addition the operational and administrative cost is going to be
massive as well even today the city is struggling to manage the park and the
overflowing garbage we will need Park Rangers and enforcement 24/7 to control
the drinking parties and the bonfires which already occurred today all these
costs will be a significant tax burden to the city and the taxpayer the
community at large has opposed to plan as we have heard the petition signed by
over a thousand people are in opposition to the swp project the TRC a stakeholder
committee citizens voices have been ignored serious concerns were raised by
these stakeholders but fell on deaf ears as citizens we feel the TRC A’s
community feedback process has been dysfunctional to go ahead with building
roads hardening the shoreline paving the kilometres of paths is irresponsible in
this day and age in light of the species of wildlife that are rapidly
disappearing worldwide given the sensitive nature of the ecology and the
habitat we feel if anything we need to restrict the human footprint by
converting this area into a conservation area much like has been done in Halton
Region in the region of Peel as a world-class City Toronto needs to step
up to the plate and be a leader in conservation
to quote Molly Beatty the ex director of US Fish and Wildlife War the city
chooses to save is where the city chooses to say for about
self please say no to the swp thank you sir
other questions of this deputed counselor Crawford I’m sorry okay sorry
I didn’t see their counselor maker thank you three mr. chair and thank you very
much for coming in today I’m surprised by your conclusion as a fellow
environmental advocate did you not read the environmental assessment report they
had a chart there showing all the net benefits for all of the undertakings so
as a fellow environmental advocate wouldn’t you want to support something
that actually improves habitat on our lake front yes sir I would I think that
increased footprint is going to be devastating to the existing flora and
fauna of this place the the bats and the swallows find their homes on the sides
of the bluffs if we develop this area increase the human footprint I think
their homes will be in peril there is an angle that people have mentioned about
perhaps increased fishing that that might be a benefit but that far negates
the fact that we are hardening the shoreline and as you have heard today
that’s not going to help us so through you mr. chair so if you sat down with
the conservation authority staff and they showed you the list of where they
have drawn a different conclusion than you and you are convinced for example
they’re there swallows nesting colonies over at the Rouge marsh where I helped
create a National Park and that area has been hardened if you will and I don’t
want more beaches being hardened but the report shows a very significant and
substantial increase in ecological health and environmental habitat so for
you to make a submission to this committee that your conclusion and
you’re asking us to stop this this project is because it may hurt wildlife
and habitat just shocking to me so what information may be perhaps that you have
that I haven’t and sir III coat the tea rca’s 2012
environmental assessment which clearly talks about the damage that would happen
if any footprint was increased well then three mr. chair so but but if
our staff sat down with you and showed you where it actually increases there’s
a net increase to species than you would then change your position and support it
we would but parts of wood wood okay parts of this group were part of the
stakeholders committee and many of these things were brought to their attention
we had big discussions over the last three years maybe four years with two
members of our group in fact initially the bank’s wolves and the bats didn’t
make to the list it was only after our members highlighted that they do exist
that they did make it and this is just we are not biologists we just brought it
to the attention as we are frequent visitors and residents to the area I
think a fully a assessment if done properly will highlight the impact that
this will have and a potential negative impact it would have
so we therefore feel this should be more of a conservation area reducing massive
footprints so it is great to have a bus it is great to contain if we can provide
funds for what we have today that’s good but if you increase the footprints the
human footprint crater trail link the whole system it’ll be nice to bike yeah
I buy – I sail – but I do not think in the end you will have the desired
outcome Thank You Deputy heartbreaker I had over here sounds the conference yeah
thank you very much for your deputation so just clarification are you so you’re
you’ve stated that you are not in support of this Garber waterfront
project at all you’d rather us say no to the entire project understanding that
there are many components that are very good in here now use the one example
Brimley Road reconstruction is part of this so if we say no to this that goes
there’s lots of opportunities for picnic areas so and I haven’t heard that
from other other deputations it’s really focusing on a certain areas gray Abbey
Beach East Point Park so your your recommendation to us is to say no to the
entire thing even and part and you did mention that thousand people petition
and I think that thousand people petition was more focused on gray Abbey
Beach not the entire project is that correct okay but then this is so if we
say no to the entire project all of these other good things will be lost
wouldn’t it make more sense and maybe you can change your mind I don’t know
about to support a good portion of it but to deal with some of these issues
like grey Abbey Beach and I recognize and agree with you on increasing the
footprint there but if we say no the whole thing we’re losing out a lot of
opportunity and I understand that the council has got some difficult questions
and at its hand but I think by increasing our footprint not making it a
conservation area not putting more Park Rangers not controlling the bonfires and
the drunken rebels there that what will happen with increased access is not I
think in the best interest of either the wildlife or the city at large so then
just on that just with my last question is again because a lot of these
recommendations are really about managing the popularity of a destination
that a lot of people across the city and province now come to so again if we say
no to this our ability to manage that will be a lot less because I mean if we
say no to this then the process stops we got another two or three years and we’re
already rolling and trying to get something and I’ll just the last is the
example of the Brimley Road reconstruction it’s already part of the
a we’re pushing to get that done I don’t want to lose that opportunity if we see
no to this overall project usually councillor Crawford I am going to
personally lose when you enlarge your Brimley Road since I live
on that road and my a portion of my property would be taken away so
personally it’s not in my favor or in my neighbor’s favor but looking at the big
picture of things I am in favor of safety so you put in buses in there and
I think that’s a good idea we need safety of the people who walk
there today but we also need to look at the overall safety and if we if we start
getting in you know hundreds and thousands of people every year
can the ecosystems sustain it you know if you get too many people you will kill
what they’re coming there for that’s our position on it thank you thanks very
much any other questions of this deputy well thank you very much sir appreciate
your time Thank You councillor mr. Christopher
Walken Christopher Windsor Highland Yacht Club
I get it oh there’s also next to mr. David brew yay also from oh you won’t be
here okay or mr. Windsor I am indeed you’re welcome here and you have three
minutes and we thank you thank you very much
my name is Chris Windsor and I’m a member of Highland Yacht Club Highland
Yacht Club is one of four nonprofit owned self-managed member managed
operated nonprofit sailing clubs in the bluffers Park Basin so it’s the western
portion of this environmental assessment and I’m here to voice my support for the
preferred alternative for the western segment and the Scarborough waterfront
project just by way of background well actually first before I begin I would be
remiss your worship if I didn’t convey my members appreciation and also to
councillor Crawford for the visit that you both undertook last spring to our
clubs as part of your fact-finding undertaking in terms of the impact of
the legend of the historic high water impacts in the in the lake so thank you
both for that undertaking by way background our clubs our self-help clubs
were literally carved out of the muck over 35 years ago at the base of the
Scarborough Bluffs by the working men and women
of Scarborough and intended to be a way to promote boating safe and affordable
boating as a recreational opportunity for the people of Scarborough and the
City of Toronto and we therefore take our role as stakeholders and stewards of
this wonderful gem of the western segment of the waterfront very very
seriously we similarly adhere to some of the
principles of our founders which were to create an integration with the Greater
Scarborough community and indeed the city community through our outreach
activities and those include having open houses to promote boating those include
offering sailing lessons those include we offered our docks to the Toronto
Police Service auxilary unit for a marine rescue unit until they
determined they would be better served in Ashe bridges but that was a way of
ensuring some security and safety for the tens of thousands of people who use
the beach adjacent to us we’ve hosted Scouts groups we’ve hosted military
veterans and our highlight of our calendar annually is something we’ve
done for decades which is to take out using our members vessels the residents
of the new leaf Center which is a center for severely cognitively disabled adults
and their caregivers and to share a little lunch with them on our grounds
and I would invite you and all of the members of this committee if you’re
available to join us because that’s an incredible privilege and an amazing
experience of our waterfront the reason that I share all this with you is
because all of that dynamic community focused boating activity in bluffers is
completely dependent on having a navigable channel and access to the
waterfront and that access is continually threatened by the erosion
from the bluffs which is a part of a natural sediment transport process and
winter storms etc which is why the preferred alternative in this waterfront
project has advanced an enlargement of that East lighthouse area
and why we feel it’s absolutely essential not only to the 1200 vessels
that base there and transit but the over 1,000 boating families from across the
lake that come and use that that they have a safe navigable alternative and I
would only conclude by saying not only do we feel that that headland
enhancement is essential and necessary but it’s also a matter of not only
safety but it’s a way of continuing to be able to have the wonderful experience
that boating is it represents in that bluffers Basin so thank you for that and
again Thank You mr. what yet alternative are there questions of the deputy
counselor Crawford counselor Atteberry Mike I’m sorry Gabe right deputy mayor
thank you three mr. chair and I certainly I know the Ameri well so your
submission to us Mayon is my understanding correct that I’ll call it
the lighthouse or that III actually call it the Spitz sometimes that we’re gonna
stick out into the wall I was trying to use the language that would be was part
of the the organizer both if that that had lenders the area the lighthouse area
they call it the eastern the eastern headland that area for you which would
be new would actually be a very positive experience for people who are well
professional not professional experienced sailors and people who are
just learning to sail boat absolutely and as I understand it harkening back to
the Honorable David Crombie’s comments it’s also what the science that’s been
marshaled by this process is saying that it’s necessary to to reduce and mitigate
the erosion off the bluffs and three mr. chair would you agree with me that
bluffers Park itself and where your marina is is probably the most
manipulated the most human impacted the most paved over section of the entire
Scarborough otter front I probably yes yeah but yet it’s also I would submit I
don’t know if you would agree with me it’s probably the most popular part of
the Scarborough waterfront absolutely and and and I have to say that we are in
a totally thrilled with the bus service that started because it’s long bit of
concern of ours that there’s a lot of people walking up and down
roads that that are taking a risk in so doing right and so you would agreement
with me that that although again and I agree with some of the the deputies that
have spoken earlier that I I want to keep gray Abbey Beach as a sandy beach
but putting that that issue aside that in terms of hardening which some people
are horrified about hardening although we don’t like to do it does actually
have some advantages in the bluffers context it would appear to have I mean
there’s tons of parking lots and thousands of people who use them right
and washrooms which there are not enough of correct right so if it wasn’t for the
scar buffer spark I’d say most of us Garber residents would probably never
get access to any part of the bus would you agree it’s it’d be a long walk down
yeah where else would we go thank you for coming by the way so you did the
group the for Yacht Club’s have borders clubs and marinas down there and there’s
parts me I think 1,500 to 2,000 people that would be utilizing or using that
area a bluffers Park any tears up approximation from the boating community
yeah absolutely well yes okay so you know of course you’re an integral part
of everything that happens down there now with regard to so that one of the
benefits and we’ve talked about some of the challenges we have but one of the
benefits of course is improving that channel so right now and you know full
well that it’s dredged every year yes at our expense it costs sixty eighty
thousand dollars a year to dredge that and the reason we do that is because of
the erosion the headland will deal with that correct and in fact you do get
boats that get stuck at certain times of you right now yes and that’s a serious
risk of injury the and they let me just share with you that their boats that are
grounding in the navigable channels that are set up by Transport Canada to
determine safe passage so you got a boat coming from New York they they’re
between the red and the Greens they assume it’s all good and they they hit
ground hard that’s a serious liability even we’ve had NOTAMs which are notices
to Mariners which are go out for navigational purposes which
actually say that the entrance is a potential hazard because you can’t trust
the water levels okay so and again you and as a representative of the boating
community but yourself personally are generally supportive of this and
recognized absolutely we still need some work to do on certain portions of the
waterfront approach I preface my remarks by saying 100% support for a preferred
alternative in the western segment of this EA simply because I’ve learned a
great deal over the course of these last many hours but yes absolutely I think
that it needs to proceed and I would urge you to to accept the
recommendations and punt it forward and if you have mechanisms to address some
of the other concerns in the Eastern segment of which I’m less familiar than
that would make sense also and of course you’re fully supportive of
reconstructing Brimley Road to ensure that’s a safe access for pedestrians
we’re on record I’m a former member of our executive and just an active member
of our community we’re on record going back years calling for better better
better interface between vehicles and pedestrians absolutely thank you Thank
You council conferred now did I have any other persons wishing to question this
Jap in if not all thank you very much sir Thank You Pam Erickson
good afternoon you have three minutes thank you very much for coming I know
it’s a very difficult job to manage the economy the ecology and the community
and there’s always going to be a compromise some are going to lose and
some are going to win mostly people win and unfortunately the wildlife do not
the drea P Beach particularly out of this is a landing spot for migratory
bird birds of 19 different species 19 different species thousands of birds
come through there and it is the one of the very very few areas that is not
hard-lined it is not a problem for the creatures to go from sand to water if
you hardline the last the very last of the beach in an effort to make it
friendly completely around then you have to say goodbye many of the species who
use this as a stopover point are going to disappear the largest migratory route
of all the birds in North America is our Great Lakes and funnily enough many land
right here in Scarborough they can’t land in downtown Toronto anymore they
don’t land at the beaches and they’re not going to land at bluffers park
either but they do land the trumpeter swans come through regularly I’m
concerned for the conservation of a very small and sensitive area they could be
spared it could just be as easily to go to the top of the bluffs to continue as
we all do now to do our cycling it wouldn’t hurt to spare this small area
of land give access for the birds and for the
wildlife if you go down there early in the morning at five and six the deer are
down there where are they going to go they have to have access directly to the
water and so do many other species and you’ve heard all of us say this but I
still want to go on the record as adding my voice to this plea to save a small
part of this for her wildlife and our migrating ducks 19 species and they all
land there thank you thank you Miss Erickson are there any questions of the
deputy quite a concert director deputy America Thank You mr. chairman
my apologies everything we can see each other have you also been to the Leslie
Street spit I have and are you aware that it has the largest colony of
cormorants and I have Great Lakes so that totally artificial I don’t want to
call it ugly I’ll call it scruffy that scruffy person made spit actually is
designated by all the best bird advocates like myself as an important
Bird area known nationally so it’s not necessarily human presence that will
destroy things it’s human presence that doesn’t think about making sure there’s
a net benefit perhaps you’re right in many ways but there is no harm in having
a little bit more land that has not been hard-edged that has not been left that
has been left natural so that these birds have more than one place to land
it’s getting rather crowded on that Leslie Street spit and the cormorants I
don’t know they are equated a dirty species they actually denude all
the trees however be it which is what God wants them to do yes
we accept them and and they’re fishing however I’m talking about the Shire of
the species who do not go to the Leslie Suites but who like being out in
Scarborough where it’s quiet and they do land out there it’s all part of it I
think that we need to pursue to compromise as crombie was saying we have
to compromise between the economy the ecology and the community and I think
that this small area they expand this to the gray Abbey Beach would not be tragic
nor would it end the waterfront trail by any means to be a happy place but you’ve
also maintained a place where the wildlife can get down to the water who
live in Scarborough do and they does not not the Leslie Suites pit because they
are otherwise going to be backed up the deer the rest of it onto people’s
property there are other problems created by that by not giving them an
access thank you thank you I’ve only got a short time to ask you questions so so
I agree with you 100% by the way but my question to you as well is if we build
this waterfront trail in addition to protecting grey Abbey Beach we could
actually end up with more wetlands more meadows more habitat for the wildlife
that you and I love and that would be a good thing correct yes okay great thank
you thanks deputy Mary DeBary other questions of the deputy thank you very
much miss Erickson Penn 10s good afternoon sir three minutes to make your
deputation thank you a good afternoon mayor Tory dear executive members my
name is pimping F and I’m bringing nearly 48 years as a diving experience I
have and about three years experience as a engineer I’ve been resident local
resident for us almost 30 years immediate resident in
the area of discussion and I have a lot of evidence of the work of nature in
support of canceling the East portion of the project as it is and the reason is
because the nature waves and wind work in supporting the beach area in question
as it is without need of any hardening without need of any interfering with
what nature is providing by the way nearby there is a shipwreck all
Alexandria sank back in 1905 that’s makes 113 years now
pardon 19 1503 years now and I’ve been visiting it’s or lasts almost 15 years
and I remember first time I visited I could have C double part of the deck now
I cannot see anything about three years ago I drove last night means this is
constant action of the local current which is east-west direction direction
and there is no better proof than actually the Toronto Islands which a
result of this much more powerful current back at the time on Niagara
rivers was bringing more sediment in the lake what that means is this area of
concern is self maintained you don’t need to interfere with the nature and I
support entirely and to really each many presenters prior to me only adding that
one different angle of perspective of the whole picture and this is like this
is money not well to be spent if you really consider to approve
project as it is without major amendments and those major amendments
must take place the sooner we can before the process take when it’s on and it’s
difficult to control because our presence here to make this change is
necessary may or may not be always available but now is the time to make a
right choice from all of the executive members here and if possibly to make
these changes right now thank you thank you sir
have there questions of the deputy thank you very much mr. canipe thank you so
much for being here Micah Sandusky is next all right thanks for the
opportunity to speak I’m speaking on behalf of fellow lake surfers I own surf
Ontario so from here how far do you think you would have to travel to find a
perfect wave according to Google Maps it’s a three half-hour walk from here or
about 30 minute drive that’s Scarborough Bluffs have a look at
the picture we were surfing there about a week and a half ago on that that wind
storm on that Friday you may have seen us in the the city post just last week
that’s TJ at the bluffs he is vying for an Olympic spot on the team as Robin had
pointed out earlier surfing on the lakes is in the media that’s for sure
so I’m the founder arguably Canada’s largest surf shop I’ve surfed over 300
rounds I even got married at Scarborough Bluffs
because I liked the place and the ways are so good some more pictures this was
that last Friday so I’m just gonna go on a little bit about the wave the wave
here turns heads it gets people talking okay it’s the Scarborough Bluffs that
are at the Lighthouse there the mate that have the best waves
there’s heart there’s not many good waves that are nearby I show them to our
California suppliers and they’re very impressed there’s usually 15 to 50 to
100 surfers out when the waves are up and in the water at one time 15 to 30 we
estimate there’s about 3,000 4,000 surfers that’s my boy the wave is is
good for all levels young old men women we paddle surf it and body board as I
said earlier there’s no other ways good buy that nearby that’s why this is an
important spot for us that Westhead land that would be built to the south would
block off the waves from peeling into that lighthouse spot it would also stop
the main beach deserve from breaking which we frequent in the summer months
this is the headland I’m speaking about and the waves so business-wise we was
selling board since 2009 it’s increasing rapidly
we’ve doubled in the last couple years we sell about $600 per year our business
depends on the bluffs without the waves there we wouldn’t generate the interest
in surfing we’d likely move there as another surf shop that opened up last
year surf the grace that’s another sign that
the business is growing also board sports and silent sports have longtime
been selling surfboards and it’s also a driver of our accessories and wetsuit
sales so it’s obviously going to hurt our surf scene if the head land is built
because the ways won’t be here so it’s going to impact our surf surf
culture it’s also something that improves their health in an in mental
state and it’s a global sport and a global connection and a city of Toronto
is very culturally diverse that we shouldn’t overlook this point we should
promote and protect its growth for now and future generations that’s what you
feel like after you surf thank you I’ll take your word for it next summer
half the water is pretty chilly I did swim there not too long ago on ok it’s
questions of the deputy deputy Mary DeBary maker thank you through mr.
Gerron and thank you very much for coming in today would you agree with me
that the waves that you’re enjoying are there there I will call them totally
artificial waves the only Bluffs in the marina that was built three waves would
not exist right and would you agree with me that probably when they did it they
actually weren’t thinking about surfing I’ll call it we or the people who live
around here where were I’ll call it an unintended
consequence of building the Scarborough Bluffs is they created this amazing
condition for people who like to surf yeah I mean if they were here I’d like
to thank them yes so it’s a I’m sure they didn’t know and it was a random
setup but they did a good job so and at one level you’ve heard to some of the
boaters saying well we like the I call it this bit but the headland area right
because it makes it safer for our families who come in and out of the the
club and there’s a thousand of us right and you’re saying well we I think you’re
saying you don’t want or don’t like that spit yeah that node that goes no if it
were to rap to the West then that’s an alternative that would work for the
surfers the ways would still rap and funnel down into that lighthouse area
and continue toward the beach right and it wouldn’t create that rip that Robin
was speaking about so at one level you’re
I’ll cut a spit in general what you really want to make sure that we do as a
city is to protect either the current conditions or if they have to change
because things will change that we make the conditions as good as they are now
or hopefully even better if there’s such a thing right yeah no I appreciate the
question that helps clarify what I was trying to get at and I would think that
that yourself in the surfing community would be very happy to sit down with the
staff as this gets rolled out or implemented to make sure that if we can
maximize the enjoyment of surfers so that you can triple or quadruple the
number of people coming here and put Scarborough in Toronto on the map as a
circuit surfing community that would benefit everybody in this room I think
so definitely yeah okay great thank you game thanks they’re just maybe a couple
more thank you sir mr. Lee state councillor McMahon very much thank you
for your York reputation so you sell boards that you shop do you rent your
boards as well yes is a small part of the business and okay so that’s great to
hear for people new to it like our mayor maybe this summer and how long have you
been surfing I 16 years now 16 and here well I started 16 years ago in Hawaii
and surf here in the summer the next summer so 16 years you’re saying this
compares to Hawaii at times at times well yeah rewind the pictures yeah and
so you your group is doing what kind of promotion do you guys do for this I
think a lot of chaunt onehans don’t know you can surf there that I think they
would yeah exactly I’m you know it’s changing we do a lot of promotion
through social media obviously you know the pictures of the good waves that were
surfing gets spread around rapidly so that’s basically how it’s grown is being
on the water surfing and showing other people and did to your knowledge just
tourism Toronto or Tourism Ontario do anything on that
yeah I think there’s been some yeah Ontario discover Ontario we’ve shared
your photos and that’s a good idea to connect with them and do you think the
city could be doing something for promotion for yeah I think definitely
the city no remote would be interested to working with the city on that for
sure okay and you have like a kind of a formalized group of surfers I mean I’ve
heard from a lot of your surfers in my office so you think you’re saying three
to four thousand right servers and that is are they part of it like a group it’s
not really necessarily like a club okay just when the waves are good we go
surfing and we have a connection that’s it’s not really quantifiable so okay but
you’re kind of representing you’re representing their voice today today
yeah okay thank you thanks a councillor grant councillor
Crawford hey mr. mayor and I thank you for coming by the way my stepson
actually surfs down there – so I hear a lot about him on that wave now just just
more about the wave and just it’s for I think people’s interest here but so
there’s two times of the season where there or actually one time of the season
where the wave is actually bigger and that has more to do with the water
movements and I believe in the wintertime surprisingly the wave is
actually a lot bigger is that correct yeah generally the ways are best
September to April it all depends when we get us a bigger southwest wind it’s
generally bigger in the winter although that week and a half ago that Friday the
boy registered 8.5 feet and the ways were a little you know a little overhead
so we can get those kind of conditions in April but it’s usually November
December January we’re so surprised and I mean that’ll probably count the mayor
oh definitely to actually go surfing there’s probably stuff didn’t like
December anyway I just found it interesting that the bigger waves I mean
you you have a very committed following of people who will actually surf in the
wintertime and they stun I see them they come out I mean in the worst of
conditions in the wintertime they’re out surfing it’s not oh that’s crowded in
the wind in the summer than it is yeah when it’s up its up everyone’s
there you definitely have to not see now I’ll be moving a motion so again and
then also understand you came into the EI process probably a little bit later
right and a lot of other groups so you didn’t necessarily have the opportunity
to to work through the a and and unintended consequences that that
happened I get that but when you did come in I think we heard I heard I know
Glenn hurt and the process heard you I’ll be moving a motion that’s gonna
look at exploring ways to protect the existing wave conditions and there is
more work that needs to be done and I respect the headland component and all
that we need to manage that so we’re looking at trying to figure that out as
we move forward in the process but I just want to let you know that that
motion will be moved sure okay thanks thank you that okay I think that’s all
the questions for you mr. Sandusky we thank you very much for your
presentation and for answering those questions and that brings us to may
Dowling good afternoon my name is Joe and I’m a
resident of Scarborough I’m here today to present a video of the gray Abbey
Beach on behalf of Jennifer Albee who could not be here today
[Music] [Music] [Music]
[Music] Thank You mr. link so are there any
questions for the deputy was deputed without commentary but very interesting
visuals and comments on the screen any questions well thank you very much that
was so very worth seeing thanks to Frank very much last but not least in terms of
our deputies for this item Emily Daigle Emily come on up please
yeah hi everybody welcome it sounded like a nice video but if you’re visually
impaired you didn’t know what was going on in the video so it would have been
nice next time a service description just a little accessibility thought so
I love Scarborough I miss Scarborough in many ways especially my trails earlier I
heard the word handicapped I hear people saying don’t ruin the nature we can’t
regain it I hear people say oh well we can’t have access to the beach well what
if what would it be if you only had access to two beaches in the entire city
well that is access if you can walk and have a person helping you and don’t have
a car chair because the city does not possess each chairs for us to build it
down in the water and have fun just like all the able-bodied I love the idea of
people saying oh well we want to reclaim our nature and you know I love it when
people don’t understand what it is that those of us with disabilities have every
single much as right as any one of you in this room to access the city beaches
boardwalks pathways at each and every one of you let’s get out of the 1950s
derogatory speech of handicapped and being inaccessible to those that really
would love to go to a board Walker Beach you know councillor Ainsley has worked
so hard for people like me when it comes to accessibility of the trails and
Scarborough Mary Margaret McMahon and the other councillors down along the
beaches worked really hard after all the rains
last year to get the boardwalk back up but I’m gonna tell people yeah I know
I’m not going to show the picture because I was at the bluffs yesterday
according to the TDC supervisors the first person in a wheelchair to board
the buses to go down I don’t want to tell you something I couldn’t even go to
the washroom down there no wonder why people like me wear diapers because you
don’t have legal access to things that normal people normally take for granted
I will never take nature for granted nature is beautiful it is glorious I
live downtown Toronto where we have little stubby trees living in sidewalk
holes that you know are gonna be dead in two or three years but what I would like
people to know we’re here today being very emotional about how they want to
save the board what their sandy beaches and they won’t have access to them
imagine not having access to them your entire life imagine waiting your entire
life to go see the bluffs you know see the bottom of the bluffers park it was
beautiful there first time in my life I got to see
the bluffs from below for many people like myself it’s only a dream to go to
the beaches in this city there’s one that has a bit of an accessible path in
on the island but that’s if you can afford to go the island if you can
afford to take a lunch or if you can afford to eat down there Scarborough has
been left out of many things but people with disabilities and Scarborough have
been left out of many more and I ask you counsel this Beach this walkway this
waterfront plan should be for everybody not just the able-bodied not just the
some people who live near there who who will take it for great
it seems that they get to live near the bluffs those of us that are forced to
live downtown or live in Toronto Community Housing or live in subsidized
housing or a group homes or wherever we don’t get the chance they get so why not
it’s why are we having NIMBYism yet again why are we having people saying oh
well this is ours you can’t have it this is ours we don’t want to paved over it
does not fund everything has to be paved there’s hardpack travelers trails learn
from Hamilton anybody the councillor Ainsley you said it best idiots to go
over the fence on the top of the bluffs in my opinion in many others opinion if
they call 911 they should pay for that service in Hamilton where I grew up
Albion Falls Devil’s Punchbowl the same crap happens why don’t you look at
Hamilton for the way they’ve done their waterfront trails and their beaches I
ask each and every one of you think about it this way and everybody in this
room needs to realize this you all can become like me like that snap the
fingers y’all can become disabled in the blink
of an eye so think about it this way what if you yourself wanted to go to the
beach your friends are all going but you can’t go how does that make you feel as
a human being how does it make you feel when you know that there’s people that
say oh this is ours we live near here we don’t want it ruined we don’t want
all this disturbance well imagine this I’m 39 years old because of that bus
service I was able to go see someone that I’ve dreamed of going to see I was
able to take some photos and some sound recordings of the waves and the birds
and the trees and you know what I didn’t have to travel three four or five hours
nope good old titi see so when you hear people being
NIMBYism about progress when you hear people using 70 80 year-old sayings
butter derogatory it’s like if somebody called my brother a certain word that
starts with in there’d be enough for but yet people can look at us and call us as
disgusting name I don’t have my cap in hand begging never have never will I’ve
been homeless nine times Emily I’ll have to go we gave you two extra minutes ever
I’ll have to just ask you to conclude now thank you very much here our
waterfront our harbor front our trails are for everybody not just some they’re
for every single resident of this beautiful city now let’s remember that
because equality is for all not just for some thank you thank you Emily very much
are there any questions of the deputy Joyce sorry were you pointing at
something Michael okay hon so Michael oh sorry counselor McMann yeah okay there’s
pointing at each other okay well how am I to keep how’s the man to keep up with
that any questions of the deputy all right well thank you very much Emily for
your deputation appreciate that alright that is the end of the deputations and
that would bring us to questions of staff presentation there wasn’t one that
was listed as being made here it counselor
Ainsley as far as I can tell from my agenda I don’t think so
it was one item they had a presentation I’m trying to recall what it was now
there is to be a presentation please oh there it is you’re absolutely right
okay how long is the presentation because I really how long is the
presentation do your worship we can do it at about 70 minutes okay I would ask
that you try to do it we have a long long list of things many of which your
Holtz that we have and we want to keep moving along with the agenda so I would
ask that we do it keep it to seven minutes if we can thank you of course
so I’ll start right away and I know they’re loading up the presentation my
name is john mckenzie I’m the CEO of the Toronto and region Conservation
Authority and very pleased to be here it’s been ten years since I’ve depute it
at City of Toronto committee so it’s great to be back I’m joined here today
by staff involved in our project and I guess Nancy Gaffney’s here if there’s
tough questions Nancy’s been the waterfront specialists on this file for
the last four years we also are joined by Anneliese grieve our EI advisor milo
strum a coastal engineer from shore plan and Racine Crowder who’s a geotechnical
expert from Terra probe who can answer some of the more technical questions
related to this project but before I begin I want to extend my thank you to
the staff in parks and Forestry Transportation Toronto water and the
Financial Planning section of the city for their support on this project thank
you very much for all the efforts that have gone into this today the individual
EA for this waterfront project seeks to provide safe public access and an
enjoyable waterfront experience while protecting and enhancing the natural
environment along an eleven kilometer stretch of shoreline between bluffers
Park and East Point Park in Toronto it’s a beautiful section of the city if
you have not been there if any of you on this kidney have not visited that area
please do so I go there regularly with my family it is an incredible asset the
project’s focus along the shoreline from the top of the Scarborough Bluffs down
to the water’s edge due to the length of shoreline study the study area was
broken into three segments to aid an alternative methods development and I
guess a key thing that David crumby spoke to was the missing link this
addresses a key missing link in the waterfront trail system
we’ve spoken about this before we do expect the mo e review period to take
some time but the key thing is your approval today for us to submit this
puts us on a path to realizing this great initiative that as you’ve heard
has been so many decades in the making so we’re looking for your support as a
number of people have attested you previously there’s been a great deal of
history a great deal of work to get to where we are today I just also do want
to mention that the project is also consistent with a suite of planning
initiatives for the City of Toronto including the City of Toronto Official
Plan the living City policies a TRC a living City policies that you and your
staff many of you have been involved in but most importantly it responds to the
diversity and the growth in demographics anticipated over the long term in this
area there’s a great deal of population growth happening in this part of Toronto
and I think you can see from these photographs in front of you today
similar projects have been completed already for parts of the Toronto
Waterfront these have been a smashing success and I can tell you I’ve been to
many of these events and I’ve been to these sections of the waterfront they
are incredible incredible opportunities to enjoy our waterfront and this is why
the ratepayer organizations in the study area and a number of the community
stakeholders have been fully engaged in this project and have lent their support
and formal submissions have come forward to this committee on that the port Union
Waterfront Park the mimic Alois to front Park an example are in Etobicoke are
examples of how a net benefit can be achieved through the through these types
of projects the Scarborough waterfront project is a holistic integrated
collaborative approach to resolving four key problems Public Safety access
erosion risk to infrastructure and habitat integrity this will be a
citywide region-wide provincial destination not just for the people that
live nearby but for everyone that will visit Toronto Public Safety is very
important we’ve talked a little bit about Brimley Road it’s one of the two
primary access routes for this waterfront heavily used by Pitt
Austrians and cyclists currently the road weight is very narrow unsafe with
steep grades and provides pedestrian and cyclist access issues so I think this
project in one of the first phases of this project if it’s approved by MOOC
will for us to be working on a separated multi-use trail along the east side of
the road with level rest areas and this will improve access to this area thank
you none of the deputy and spoke of the damage caused by informal trails and the
risk posed by those that are using some of these trails informal trails at the
top and base of the bluff what users at increased risk of landslides but it’s
also ecologically damaged once implemented this project will remove the
shoreline trail from the land side risk while the slope stabilizes and this is a
natural process that continues over the course of decades once the toe erosion
has been stopped moving on to the next issue poor public access only to formal
access points to the water edge exists Brimley road and doris mccarthy trail
this project will improve access at Brimley road and doris mccarthy trail
and will provide two additional formo access points one at the guild and the
other at East Point Park the only formal access along the shoreline is at
bluffers Park and the remainder of the shoreline access is informal at risk and
access east of the guild is currently constrained by private and restricted
property the project will provide continuous formal access along the
water’s edge between bluffers Park and the east side of grey Abbey ravine and
the top of the blustery East Point Park where we are preserving the beach and
what what is an incredible Vista if you ever get out there it’s really
spectacular the only access to the waterfront for those with strollers
wheelchairs reduce mobility or disabilities is currently at bluffers
Park the project will open up all 11 kilometers of shoreline and some of
these key vistas over the water to people with strollers wheelchairs reduce
mobility or disabilities through the provision of a multi-use trail in
accordance with City of Toronto guidelines this will be a huge
achievement on access the grey Abbey shoreline east of the Gil is only
accessible by trespass of private and restrict
property landowners in this area have expressed their concern regarding the
increased liability associated with members of the public
trespassing across their property with more population this will continue the
project will move private property at the water’s edge into the public domain
providing safe public access along the shoreline EMS are put at risk and it’s
very challenging to access these areas there’s increased Bluff rescue calls and
the new proposed trail route will increase EMS rescue efficiency the
project will improve public access to and along the shoreline thereby
significantly improving EMS access as well erosion to infrastructure is
addressed through this project the gray Abbey trail the road and associated
infrastructure and the park that was spoken about today is at risk within the
time frame of this project the project will immediately stop erosion at the
base of the bluffs and will minimize the loss and parkland as a slope naturally
stabilizes there was a lot of discussion today by debutantes on habitat integrity
the final key problem that we’re going to discuss today terrestrial habitats in
the project study area is fragmented by a 14 kilometer long network of informal
trails and the aquatic habitat has been previously degraded through historical
stone hooking activities that took place from Port Union across the waterfront
the project will decommission these informal trails and manage public use
through sensitive vegetation communities it will enhance aquatic habitats through
improvements to shoreline substrate and profile diversity it will result in the
creation of approximately seventeen point six hectares of new naturalized
terrestrial habitat other benefits of the project include resiliency to
extreme weather events like we had last year eliminating the need for dredging
at bluffers Park which we heard about from one deputy and again support for
the provinces climate change action plan by promoting active transportation and
providing enhancements the outcomes of the Scarborough waterfront project are
strongly beneficial for all aspects of the environment resulting in
improvements to aquatic and terrestrial habitats improved public access to the
shoreline which is removed from the risk associated
with Bluff erosion and wave up rush overtopping a better waterford
experience accessible to more people including people with disabilities and a
project compatible with local regional and lake wide plans and policies related
to the natural and human environment your worship we’re here to answer any
questions and I guess I just want to conclude that personally I’ve been
involved in planning related to the waterfront regeneration trust and some
of this work for over 25 years it’s great to see this project in its
current state and I’m looking forward to working with members of the committee
and advancing this we’re happy to answer any questions of the committee thank you
let’s just see a show of hands in terms of questions for the TRC a on the
presentation or otherwise conference e presentation um one of the comments that
we heard in the presentations or the deputations earlier was about the lack
of public process and I I was at a number of meetings if I wasn’t in the
meetings my staffer at the meetings from like the community associations in my
area for example I’ll support this I was just wondering about the feedback on the
the consultation process sure Alaska and Nancy Gaffney who’s been involved with
this for over four or five years now answer that question so the public
process was done in accordance with the environmental assessment act so we did
undertake a number of public consultation exercises not only as
stakeholders but in the community actually meetings as well we did the
public information centers to develop a terms of reference which was the
template for how the EA was to be undertaken what we would be assessing
what we would be considering throughout the process so that was approved by
minister as well so then we had a number of other public information sessions we
didn’t information sessions with the the public in their own communities during
different events we also had a stakeholder committee that contributed
their input throughout our process as well so we we did meet and exceeded all
of the environmental assessment act obligations but we also undertook to
make sure that the had a good understanding of the
shoreline that they were helping us make decisions about so we did a number of
exercises where they went down to the bluff in a down the bottom of the bluff
in a van we tried to accommodate as many members of the public and we did that a
number of times so hundreds of people got access to the bluffs where they
never had had access before we wanted to make sure that they were informed about
the decisions they were helping us make and so we think we had a very exhaustive
public process and it wasn’t just the public meetings where the input was
coming from it was also people submitting things
online and also through emails anything else every other opportunity for social
media was also as considered as input into the project as well okay and then
if I look at what’s before us today compared to when we first started there
seems to be a number of significant changes like there was more access
points we took into account the work that was done at the gill park and
Gardens I know for the longest time former councillor Moser was a strong
advocate but he wanted a Wadud the trail on the water’s edge right from Highland
Creek ravine over to port Union Park and now that’s recognized the issues along
there with swallows and vegetation and animal habitat and we’ve moved that part
of the pathway up to the the table lands at the top correct yes okay all right
thank you very much those are my questions Thank You councillor are there
any other members of the committee wishing to ask a question if not I’m
gonna ask a quick one just with respect to the mandate of the TRC a on this
project that wonder if you could give comment as as you know the driving force
in your mandate that causes you to reach these particular recommendations and
just some assurances of the breadth of policies that you need to follow in
order to reach these type of recommendations thank you for the
question we have we have a strong mandate we have to protect the natural
environment but we also have to protect public health and safety and erosion
risk our large part of our initial inception and the mandate and mission
that we carry out so we’re very cognizant of all of these
we have a policy framework or Livius any policy framework that has been vetted
here at this at this council but it’s been something that we have region-wide
that we follow so we’re very very concerned about the natural environment
heard a great deal of concern from deputies today but we are that is a
primary part of our mission we have a number of experts that have looked into
the habitat issues they’ve studied them extensively through this we’ve also
looked at the issues related to erosion and public health and safety and again
be based on our mandate based on our mandate of protecting the public
interest we’ve arrived at the conclusions we’ve arrived at through
this four well five-year ei study process when you look at the the work to
prepare the initial terms of reference to submit that to get that approved by
the Ministry of Environment at the time now it’s the Ministry of Environment and
climate change we’ve carried on and undertaken a great deal of consultation
to get to the recommendations and all of that is informed by the studies that are
conducted with the experts we have at the TRC a and with the input of the
public so I’m very comfortable with the recommendations that are before you
today that they achieve our mandate of protecting the natural environment
protecting against the risks and human health and hazards that are part of our
mandate thank you very much with that are there any other members
wishing to ask a question on the presentation if not we’ll go to
questions of staff any members of council that are here today wishing to
ask a question of staff I see not any members of the committee wishing to ask
questions of staff see none that’s right members of council here today wishing to
make a speech councilor distorted deputy mayor – may the bear maker Thank You mr.
chair I’m here and I want to thank both our staff and all the deputies that came
here and certainly I will call it a very large brain trust in terms of making our
waterfront an amazing place I don’t think we could pay some of the
people who came here today enough money to make it any better but they volunteer
their own time they give us input they do the research they go back to the
documents that were written in 1987 in 1991 Bibles that they maybe they go back
and they do the research and I think it’s really wonderful and through mr.
chair I I think this project has a lot from my perspective to do with equity
earlier today we talked about the LRT line that would go to Scarborough campus
U of T we’ve just at the last council meeting approved two billion dollars to
build the smart track system across the city but also in Scarborough and of
course our Scarborough subway extension so I think finally for Scarborough we’re
going to have what is approaching equity in terms of our transit service and it
hasn’t happened before and I’m very glad that we’re fixing that
likewise when I look at the waterfront trail I can’t help but look across the
Victoria Park border with a little bit of envy because from the Mississauga
Toronto border to Victoria Park we actually have a waterfront trail that’s
on the water and it’s offroad and it’s safe and it’s beautiful it has had to
weave its way across the city so when you get down to tip-top tailors it sort
of moves away from the water a little bit and is at least now not on a road
it’s actually got its own bicycle path down there but I think it’s actually
absolutely wonderful and helps define the city when you get to the East End
however you get to the balmy Beach Club and the trail dead-ends effectively dead
ends because at the balmy Beach Club you gotta head north and take your
six-year-old twins up the very steep hill up to Kingston Road let your twins
and yourself and your family and your friends take your bike along Kingston
Road cut into a subdivision and zig and zag and zig again and zag again and you
keep zigging and zagging all the way up on the table and you never actually see
Lake Ontario up there you never actually see the shore or see the nature but in
the Scarborough section of the unquote waterfront trail it just isn’t there
until you get down to the Rouge Marsh at the end of Lawrence when we actually
cross the border into Pickering and it becomes a beautiful trailer game and
that’s nobody’s fault we can’t blame r44 founders in scarborough or
toronto council that’s just the way history evolved but to see this project
come forward that scarborough will have a waterfront trail i think is wonderful
i think it brings equity to the 650,000 people who haven’t had that advantage of
being able to celebrate their waters their waterfront and to share it because
right now if you’re on a bike you can get anywhere in the waterfront trail in
20 minutes 30 minutes easy if you’re down in the beach area and you get on
your bike you’ll be able to get out to any part of the Scarborough waterfront
in an easy 20 30 minute ride and a comfortable ride that you could have
six-year-old twins with you get on a bike it in downtown Toronto at Yonge
Street and well from Yonge Street it might take you 40 minutes 45 minutes but
on a leisurely bike ride get it to any part of the waterfront that you want so
I think it’s going to do a lot to unify the city I’m very glad that the
Scarborough residents are still not petitioning to get their sand back from
downtown Toronto you know we given given given
Scarborough we’ve given all that sand or colleagues in downtown Toronto to have a
nice Island it’ll be nice that we have the
investment out on the East End of the city and finally mr. chair to my
colleagues who are worried I support councillor Crawford’s motions
I move the same well similar motions at the conservation authority and I think
we’re gonna fix what I call that one spot that still needs to be fixed and I
think it’s gonna be spectacular thank you thank you
Celso McMahon I had you you first councillor Crawford you have a motion
yes thank you mr. chair I’d like to move a motion that City Council requests the
Toronto region Conservation Authority and consultation with appropriate staff
to a maximise maintain an or create new sandy shorelines including a further
review of the key sand shorelines such as gray a B B to explore ways to protect
existing wave conditions and C to include public amenities such as
accessible washing facilities through an a continued engagement of interested
stakeholders I won’t read the rest but it’s about funding and ensuring that the
Brimley Road reconstruction is a IRD first of all I do want to thank all
the constituents my constituents a lot of them but the deputies for coming down
and and speaking their minds today was important that we hear them because this
has been a very long process today we are seeking approval to send this ei
up to the province and the Ministry of the Environment and climate change will
determine whether or not they’re gonna move forward or actually say yes or no
to this so this is a point in our decision-making process now if we say no
to the EI today or upper council all the work is gone it dies and you know
honestly I don’t think I heard that from a lot of effect of all almost all of
their deputies maybe one accepted didn’t say we want to kill this ei didn’t say
we want to do say no to the Scarborough front waterfront project what they said
is there still needs to be work to be done and my amendments that I have moved
recognise that and will in fact as we go through the design process and the
process overall will look again at those issues so I’m confident and confident
cuz I did work with councilor to bear maker and of course TRC on that so I’m
confident that those and that will happen for those individuals well when
you look at the Scarborough waterfront project let’s let’s look at we heard
some of the challenges we have but let’s look at some of the benefits that are
gonna happen out of this and I know the presentation mentioned that for the
first time we’re going to have a Brimley Road reconstructed and we’re going to be
having it accessible for people to walk down and for bicycles it others aren’t
guaranteed just we’re just looking forward to a death anytime soon so
that’s gonna be happening we’re gonna have more space for picnic picking the
king gathering by the water we’re gonna have an expanded beach at bluffers Park
over time it’s gonna be improvements for the boaters and again we’re protecting
cycling walking along the shoreline including people who have mobility
issues and I want to thank Emily for her comments we need the Scarborough
waterfront or the Scarborough Bluffs is an iconic part of this city I moved
there to over 20 years ago because of the natural beauty as have as everybody
here but as you’ve seen in cities worldwide we need to manage
nature that is the reality living in a city we don’t have a choice we need to
manage that and I think a lot of that is in these recommendations but we got to
balance out the realities we live in a big big city and there are a lot of
people coming to want to enjoy those natural habitats bluffers Park is one of
them I was 20 years ago I could have walked
down on that beach on a Saturday afternoon or a Sunday and there’d be 20
30 40 people maximum you can’t even get down there on weekends now so that is a
reality we need to manage it’s about managing growth but actually what it is
and we’ve heard that from some of the deputies it’s about managing popularity
we need to do that regard the people are coming at the end of the day those
people are coming and we have a responsibility to manage that beautiful
heritage that’s going to be there for the next 10,000 years
in a proper way I do believe this EA does that along with the amendments that
I have moved thank you thank you councillor Robinson in question a mover
yes councillor Crawford I’m just curious your your word choice here so a number
one says city council requests that the TRC a in consultation with appropriate
staff I’m just looking at the word requests and asking you why you would
use that word versus something stronger like direct well actually I mean clerks
could probably answer that but I I did actually my first reiteration was to
direct the Toronto region Conservation Authority cuz I want to make clear that
we feel this is important to direct them but it’s just through the per week we
aren’t because TRC is a separate body we can’t actually direct them they need to
make decisions on their own so as we have done in previous motions at City
Council the only wording we could actually say is request but I can say in
my conversations with them as we were preparing this that in many ways my
support of this whole overall recommendations were were key these were
very key so I think they recognized how important this is and they’ve made the
commitment to me and this is the wording that was suggested through staff through
legal through a number of different eyes I guess to to reach that
that outcome thank you thank you very much thank you
next counsel McMahon thank you very much and I just want to thank all the deputy
and smoke coming out in and staying with us all day it’s maybe not your number
one choice to spend at us on a sunny day but I have to say that it’s been one of
the most informative and interesting afternoons that I’ve spent in in this
lovely room with executive committee and it’s because of you and all your stories
and it’s it’s so you know a diverse array of groups and you have your
surfers and your walkers and your people who live locally and people who don’t
live locally and your Yacht Club and your expertise and your even bringing in
former big political big big guns so I really appreciate that
because I think we’ve all learned that something new today and and we’re super
keen to get to get down to the bluffs again it’s been way too long for me but
as someone who represents a waterfront area of Toronto I I appreciate your
passion and and your concern and and and your motivation for to push us to get
this right and so that’s why I think I’m happy to support councillor Crawford in
tweaking this a bit more and I’m also what concerns me is you know the
institutional knowledge that is sometimes lost with transfer and newly
elected politicians especially those of us who believe in term limits and this
this I always have to get that in this beautiful waterfront Bible that was
shown to us by our water keeper who is that I don’t think if he’s he’s laughs
but but I you know I it’s the first time I’ve heard about that book and my
apologies but I think it should be mandatory reading for all new councils
and all old councillors our councils who have been here for a while so again
we’ve learned something new and we’re all eager to get down there whether we
surf or walk but we working to explore your bluffs and support keeping them
pristine Thanks thank you councillor Angley Thank You mr. deputy
mayor I’m going to be supporting the recommendations in this report and I’ll
be supporting the motion that was put forward by Mike Allen sir Crawford I’ve
been on the I’ve been elected for 12 years when I was first elected I was
appointed to the TRC a at that time there’s a group of people who came in
from the federal government they were working on the great canadian waterfront
trail which was going right across the country and they sat down and they
looked at me and they sydney and councillor you’re in the scarborough
triangle and i said the scarborough triangle and he says and the gentleman
said yes he said your ward councillor Crawford’s ward and councillor Hart’s
ward there’s no access whatsoever to the waterfront we refer to that as the
Scarborough triangle and we’re trying to fix that and deal with it to make the
waterfront more welcoming and I went back to the TRC a and I said you know
what are we doing around waterfront accessibility and they said we have a
plan we’re working on it’s gonna be done in stages because we have a number of
issues along the the Scarborough waterfront accessibility is one of them
but we have to do this carefully that we also protect they’re in some areas that
are very environmentally sensitive that it’s done right that it’s done in a
meaningful way we’ve had a four to five year public process where we’ve had a
large number of community meetings outreach I look at this plan as I
mentioned earlier my questions what we have is before us today has changed
quite a bit from what we had five years ago as we’ve looked how to incorporate
more access points from bluffers Park Dorothy McCarthy trail Brimley Road the
Galloway road construction site which is it’s a construction row but in my area
it’s one of the key points access points in along the waterfront and this is an
area that is not only appreciated by residents in Scarborough but right
across the city I often laugh I have people who come from other parts of the
city and they look at the Scarborough Bluffs and they’ll said to me wow you
know how long has been here and and I have to laugh as I’m sure many of our
colleagues around the table do and the TRC adieu and I look at the people and
say well they’ve been here a couple of million
I said once in a while we washed them off we clean him up a bit we put them on
a postcard and we try and make sure that not too many people find out about them
but people do find out about them just last week I did a cleanup at East Point
Park with the Greater Toronto Water and Sewer Contractors Association we took
card shafts easy we took a transmission out a lot of garbage and that’s been
dumped along our shoreline that you know gets tucked away sometimes that people
don’t always see but it comes you know the GTC
Greater Toronto water main and sewer contractors association you came from
all over the Greater Toronto Area to help clean up that shoreline they
appreciate the beauty of it just like we do in the guild the TRC a this was
passed almost unanimously at the last TRC a meeting and I would ask everybody
here to support it as well as we continue to make sure that this area of
waterfront is a jewel not only for the people in Scarborough but for the entire
Greater Toronto Area thank you Thank You councillor Robinson thank you very much
and I would say that I asked quite a few questions so I’ll keep my briefs very my
comments very brief but I do want to like councillor McMahon just really
thank the many speakers we had here today you did an excellent job and it
was very informative and helpful in us shaping our decisions I have to say that
you know shoreline hardening it degrades and dramatically alters ecosystems
period and we shouldn’t even be contemplating such things it has
shorelines hold tremendous ecological value and we have to protect them and
preserve our natural beaches and our sandy shorelines and our natural state
so we should just be leaving things along quite frankly but I I think that
we also have to find a way to navigate this I think councillor Crawford’s
motions do that beautifully I would prefer the language to be a bit stronger
but as we’ve heard from councillor Crawford because it’s it’s not a city
division it’s a it’s an outside body an agency
that the word request according to City Clerk’s have to be
used so I’m completely fine with that I also want to thank councillor Crawford
for in the motion second motion also just adding in to accomplish the
objectives as outlined in recommendation one I think because that gives the whole
motion even more strength and I just as I said earlier and my questions I met
with the Great Lakes in st. Lawrence cities initiative former head on Friday
I’ve met with them several times in my capacity as chair of Public Works and
they were very surprised that we were even entertaining such a thought of your
line hardening it’s a it’s a way of the past it is not the way of the future and
again I would just end on saying thank you very much for the hard work of many
deputies and speakers who were here today advocating for what’s very
important are in our city thank you thank you
are there any other speakers to this item from the committee seeing none I’ll
speak very briefly I just want to say that I’ll be supporting staff
recommendations before us although I’m from Etobicoke from the West End of the
city I have gone through a similar process on a smaller scale with a very
sensitive Creek Valley where there was a trail and some major civil works that
were proposed and you know it’s it’s not a surprise that whenever you change the
natural environment it’s a controversial subject and there are different
viewpoints on this but in my process the winds that I took was that the project
that was occurring was actually a smaller piece in a much larger system
and it spoke to the entire watershed trails and eventually the trails across
the city and across the region and reminding about where why it was very
important my experiences with the TRC a have been excellent I found them to be a
group that are very sensitive to the public policy framework and the various
laws that we have to work under and the objectives that we have to achieve under
that and I would also say that they have a very strong commitment to the natural
environment and I could see that throughout the project in the choices
that they made in the recommendations that they made
and I would lastly say that they are also strongly committed to the city that
we live in in to the people that live within the city making sure that we can
coexist with the natural environment and for that I think the recommendations are
excellent and I look forward to the DEA moving forward thank you
so on councillor Crawford’s amendments to the committee all those in favor okay
all those in favor of councillor Crawford’s motion councillor Ainsley
Cancer Council bailout councillor Burnside counts the crawford councillor
DiGiorgio councillor McMahon deputy mayor holiday councillor Robinson
councillor shiner and councillor Thompson all those opposed the motion
carries unanimously yeah item is amended all those in favor
maybe another recorded vote certainly all those in favor of the motion item as
amended David councillor Ainsley all those in
favor councillor bülow councillor Burnside councillor Crawford councillor
do Giorgio councillor McMahon deputy mayor holiday councillor Robinson
councillor Shriner councillor Thompson all those opposed the motion carries
unanimously thank you the clerk’s have advised me
we’ve got a timed item e.x 34.4 optimising the citywide office portfolio
that was originally time for four o’clock councillor Shriner you’re here I
don’t think you held it but are there any but forgive me you did hold it are
there any questions of staff when I can yes of course
there the room folks if I can ask you to take the
conversations to the hallway we’ve got a number of items we’ve got to continue
along thank you for coming today okay we’re on item IX 34.4 optimizing
the citywide office portfolio mr. chair if I could just ask a primer below
thirty four point 15 I we have two speakers can I just I just wonder if
they are in the room because the local councillor and staff are here and we
just want to make sure that the speakers are here otherwise this we could
probably dispose of the item and let staff go and and the local councillor go
to a local community meeting so the speakers are Norma Silva and Virginia
Sylva Aviles are those speakers here and I’ll put it to the committee if there is
interest in dealing with this matter right now
we’ll do that that is e^x thirty-four point one five creating new affordable
rental homes a John Street in King Street in the Weston community cultural
hub there are two speakers registered I don’t know if the speakers are here
clerks are advising that we have a speaker so we’ve got all we do have to
hold that item thank you
we just want to compare the local councillor 34.4 questions of staff
3u mr. deputy mayor sir I guess Josie you’re answering the
questions we between ourselves and Antoinette
okay so there’s three floors that have been looked at so far that’s correct
which who’s on the planning’s in North York who’s in the second on the 15th so
on the through the chair on the 15 yeah I can’t hear you and mr. chairman my
time is running but I can’t hear what thank you
restart the clock there Oh counselor shiner threw the chair the 15th floor of
Metro Hall is IT and on the second floor of Metro Hall is facilities management
environment energy as well as real estate thank you
you came to a number here of a hundred and forty square feet so that’s based on
the experience you’ve had with those divisions that was based on work we did
with Gensler which is a Gensler is an organization that we use to actually
look at design and what best practices were out there and that was used within
the city based on the last three pilots that we’ve done so have you worked with
the other branches please so my concern is that the space might
not have or might not work for the other divisions so through the chair we are
working on three other pilots right now and there are people that are moving
into the space right now who are they they’re the shelter they’re moving in
this week we also working with water they moved into floor eighteen of Metro
Hall and we’re also working with Toronto Employment Services and they’re all
moving in this week and next week into metro home into Metro Hall and and and
just so oh no I okay go ahead go ahead no disrespect no
problem but then they’ll tell me I have no time left I understood and I’m sorry
I had to leave for a while Josie come on seven ten million is what you’re
calculating you’re going to save sorry counts the same thing you know what like
can my colleague do us a favor and have the conversation herself so staff get
here so it counted don’t repeat that again sorry so are you saying your
report seven to ten million so how much where are you getting that from
so what I’m gonna ask is are the analysis that was done through crate T
oh if Ashley didn’t answer that could answer that so the seven to ten million
dollars is based on ten to fifteen percent of the total operating cost for
the entire office portfolio which is seventy million dollars so you just
picked their number now you’re supposed to be identifying sites in q2 and I
understand you’ve identified some sites that might be possible sites what sites
are you looking at right now it’s still too early in the process to that there
are sites that have been identified already that might be potential sites
and I’d like to know what they were it is too early in the process we are just
really taking the study that’s been done to date and validating the information
and there’s as you can appreciate there’s a lot of sensitivity around
identifying I know and I sure of at this point I didn’t ask which
ones you’ve decided yes and I am asking straightforward what sites have been
prioritized for consideration so if I’m a councillor shiner the Civic Center
zone sites the it’s on page ten those sites are not ones that we would be
looking at for potential you know to basically unlock value of the land but
we are looking at the corporate office buildings owned those are ones that we
are looking at as potential sites to unlock land value and the other area
that we’re looking at reducing the cost structures on the offices that was the
last question also so I do respect okay one more last question I’m trying to
understand this and it was interrupted numerous times my understanding is that
there’s consideration of vacating or giving up 75 to 81 Elizabeth Street by G
square over here the Civic Center in New York and also having TTC move out of
their building at Yonge and Davisville and there’s also consideration of
building an office building right behind City Hall here on Elizabeth Street this
is still all very early review and still being considered we also have a bunch of
Lisa I didn’t ask I asked are those and due respect I’m not getting an answer so
josy could you answer please could we just no no doesn’t village I’m asking
hang on turn on quite disparaging it is disparaging because I’m not getting an
answer so to answer shiner just ask your question once please allow the staff to
answer one question please and on point of privilege
councillor McMahon I don’t need you to interrupt me and to try and tell me what
I’m asking a question okay councillor sorry no that’s enough
there’s no point of privilege there yes if please ask the question well
understand that but I am no sir shiner please ask the question rude so please
don’t jump in here councillor shiner please ask the question so Josie go
ahead I’m asking the question because the majority of this project was done
well used to had responsibilities started over two years ago there are a
number of properties that might be considered one of them I understand
might be the TTC head office on Yonge Street one of them might be where we
just put up the big sign over here for Sam the record man at Elizabeth Street
and another one might be the York Civic Centre which is a very interesting site
and then I also understand there’s consideration to putting an office
building behind Toronto City Hall which may be a problem because we’re just
going through a view corridor study and you can’t build over there so I wanted
to know if that was part of your consideration so the the last one no was
not part of our consideration we have been looking at all the sites that you
refer to the York one was not part of the consideration as you just described
earlier we have been looking at working with TTC absolutely and we’ve actually
gone to their board and we’re reviewing that in further detail and we have to go
through that in more detail us and I would say that even the one behind us
right we have not determined that at this point in time because we have to do
further analysis at this thank you did you have any more questions councillor
Schreiner well I’m told my time is up your time is
up with the consent of the committee would you like another round okay to
speak on the item do the members of the committee wish to
allow a variance of the procedure okay okay because there was so much commotion
in here I didn’t really get to hear what the answer was as far as these Civic
Center’s can you tell me is the York Civic Center on this list so through
this and I want to hear it publicly because I don’t want to happen the York
Civic Center what happened at rock cliff yards where there was no consultation
North York Civic Center will be looked at as all the Civic Center’s will be
looked at and there will be consultation on it as there will – the whole process
I refer you to page 11 of the submission which outlines our process for review so
it will follow a process so why are we not having the consultation meetings now
rather than before bring this report for it for Council – to vote on these
recommendations like these consultation meetings have to be held now not later
consideration given to the arc Civic Center we need to consult now one of the
mandates of create teo is to come forward with this multi check portfolio
strategy for the city all that this study will do is we’ve picked up from
where the city has been working on this Josie and her team have been working on
this for several years there’s been pilots it is a cornerstone of our
strategic plan we will come forward with a plan and a recommendation that says
here’s where we believe the opportunities are and we will get input
through that process we will also be consulting but that we know decisions
will be made the council will have an opportunity to say yes or no at that
point in time no but once you’ve made the decision that you’re going to
after the pod and gived locations on what site you’re interested in selling
then you go to the community then it’s a done deal and the community feels that
the deal has been done question Kosar no I just don’t understand why we’re doing
this like it so counts what happened to rock clip yards you know consultation at
also council counselor in Louisiana the intent is not to not consult with with
yourself or or the staff themselves that are part of these organizations and
before we would do anything it would come to Council for approval and before
it even come to council we would have that discussion with you thank you
it should be down sir Thompson did you did you sleep no for a question yeah
through you mr. chair I’ve just when I read the report I had the vision of a
strategic plan thoughts and I didn’t actually see that in the report is that
what will come or is that what you’re working on in order to bring that
forward and so through that you’ve identified particular properties this
one and you’ll bring that for it for further discussions yes we are looking
at the entire portfolio using the experience of the pilots there’s been
you know some work done on this and it will be a fulsome plan it includes
Toronto Community Housing the only group that it doesn’t include is Toronto Hydro
at this point so it will be looking at the whole portfolio and providing a
recommendation on how to modernize the city’s assets that it’s using owned and
leased right I realize about the real estate than the assets as you pointed
out I was just wondering whether or not consideration maybe through you mr.
chair to miss Yoli whether all consideration is being given for example
to our staff being able to work remotely and so on and s to be able to reduce the
need or the demand for physical assets because they’re now areas around the
world where people are doing that more and more
just wondering if that’s part of the objective so through the chair we
actually I’ve been doing a pilot counselor Thompson and that pilot is has
been for the last six to eight months we will continue doing the pilot throughout
the rest of the year and come back to council with a teleworking policy that
absolutely complements what you what you just stated right now and it’s actually
part of the practices that are out there in the industry right and so the dollar
sum that I sort of highlighted when I read it then you’re just giving us sort
of a ballpark based on your assessment you’re not saying that this is actually
going to be correct also it could be greater it could be less but nonetheless
it really speaks to the overall strategy in terms of how its parameters we’ve
done some parameters and what we’ve tried to outline here’s some of the
outcomes the criteria around this plus we’re also trying to be really clear
that unlocking land valley does not mean selling our land and our properties it’s
to actually we can utilize it for other types of requirements we have from a
city perspective and that’s an important part based on the mandate right having
served on the Billboard I told us that okay thank you thank you mister Kosar
Barlow questions thank you I was pretty clear on on this report but with the
questions that have been asked I’m a little bit confused I just want to make
sure that I understand it correctly what we’re trying to do here is to modernize
and optimize our office space that is this is the that’s what you’re
requesting direction to do in here correct that is correct so any what
happens after you don’t have any direction you would still have to come
to this council if there is any buildings any leases that we need to not
have anymore that would be doubt that a next phase this phase is how do we
create better environment for our workers more efficient better
environment for people to work with how can we optimize different parts of our
city to create actually some economic the mountain development in different
parts of the city that’s what we’re trying to get through this correct
that’s correct okay so any disposition anything related
to what to do or not to do with assets that’s a that’s a different thing that
is a different discussion and that what we’re trying to do is actually determine
what potential we have to unlock line belt to utilize it in different ways
from a city perspective and not modernizing us at the same time okay
okay thank you thank you deputy mayor by Lao councillor
Ainsley Thank You mr. deputy mayor I’m so Missy oles so what this report does
it’s basically looking at our real estate holdings in the citywide lens
from an office perspective correct yes and can you just so there’s the I’ve
lost it the genzler report against lured correct which talks about our square
foot per employee and that we seem to be pretty high above what’s considered the
current industry standard that’s right that’s correct we actually utilize
Gensler about two three years ago and doing the study with us and could you
just refresh our collected memories that so there was a pilot project done in
Metro Hall that at one point you know seven years ago you would go in there
and people would say you know stopper tripping over each other that there’s no
room we need a bigger building you did this pilot project in Metro Hall and can
you explain a bit about what happened as a result of the pilot projects so I’ll
take you through the second floor of Metro Hall council Ainsley
we actually had we went from square footage of probably per person just over
200 and we went to about 140 on average we actually created we are sure about
240 potential folks in that space on the second floor we’re not we have potential
about 320 so we’ve increased the opportunity to have more space and we
also created more collaborative space for staff we actually created what we
call the right to light our staff our frontline staff are actually at the
windows we took management we put them in the core in the middle and created
more of that opportunity and it’s more collaborative and more engaging we
actually reduced also the cost of energy by about 20% and we also we also got rid
of a lease outside an external lease too so we’ve been able to do
this is a learning that was part of what we were trying to do in order to move
forward with this modernization approach and we’re working with other divisions
and we have like 25 divisions that are actually got their their name in in the
inventory to actually work with us on this sorry 25 division other other
groups that want to work with us on modernizing their space and it becomes a
very because everything is also very technology driven – we have the whole
space that people can actually no matter where they are in the space they can
actually move around and work very collaboratively at the groups and and I
understand from a remote working perspective that some of the rooms that
I’ve seen there’s love there’s a lot more opportunity for video conferencing
that’s from from remote workspace our IT group did a lot of great work with us
and allowing for that ability to be more mobile correct and once again this is on
a citywide perspective so there’s the opportunity for probably collapsing some
of the leases that we have on non city-owned buildings grass is really
about more modernizing our city workforce that’s correct and just to
give you an idea the employee satisfaction with both groups went up by
35 points okay all right thank you very much thank you mr. deputy mayor thank
you are there any other questions for members of the committee councillor
shiners indicating these desires a second round do we have the consent I
can ask a question first do we have a consent of the committee to go to a
second round I think we do okay all ask mine with respect to the disposition of
properties should they be determined not to be required and I recognize as well
that we are talking about office probably office leases here but we could
be disposing of city-owned office spaces possibly depending on the outcome is
there a circulation process how does council reach the decision on that how
do we go through all of the steps to ensure that we’re ready to release the
asset we would follow the city process for dealing with potentially surplus
assets it would be circulated we would look at whether there’s other uses for
the property before jumping to making it surplus
so it will follow the city process is there an approval gate for council
should you want to decommission an asset from its current use for office space so
collapse down and move the people elsewhere and then then we find
ourselves in the situation with a surplus asset would council know before
that happens they would and what would that process be they would be approving
that whole decision a moving from X to Y and if something becomes surplus what we
will do with that we would be making that recommendation to Council as well
and so what’s the vehicle for that are there are there update reports expected
as part of it as this strategy rolls out to council we will be coming to Council
with our report in q1 2019 laying out the plan it will be a multi-year plan I
believe because this is a huge undertaking and that plan will identify
what assets we would be getting out of and what maybe possibly considered I
won’t use the word surplus would not be required for that office use and we
would be looking at alternate uses Djoser Schreiner
so where is this the original proposal came forward in 2015 the modernization
and then we had also an approval to do the pilot projects so what are you
asking for that you didn’t have permission to do before what we have
done is taken that experience from the pilots and applied it to the whole
portfolio of office space used by the city we’ve looked at the Civic
properties we’ve looked at the owned buildings that’s not my question
so josy in 2015 we gave permission to look at the modernization and after that
we gave permission for a pilot I know this is part of the reporting as to
where you’d like to go next but what permission did we not give you there
that you have now because part of the protocol at that time was to identify
the properties and to look at them it’s it’s part of the report requests that we
had two years ago so counter rota calls it was identify properties and look at
the money so I’m trying to understand what hasn’t been completed on that in
what you need right now and different requests or permission that you don’t
already have so what we had requested through those specific reports that
you’re referring to was really looking at piloting the standards that we’ve
just referred to earlier and that’s all we had asked for and then what we said
we were going to come back with was a more detailed request and what we’re
saying here right now is part of the office portfolio and we never had TTC
and others in the review when we were going through that at that point in time
so what we’re saying is going to be a holistic review and that we’re going to
come back with a full business case in q1 and requesting because these pilots
one-on-one are not advantageous we have to do them and more holistically we’ve
been doing floor-by-floor and requesting them budget by budget and it doesn’t
actually it’s it to me it actually has to be a full review in the full
investment towards it and that’s what we’re requesting right now and to work
with other agencies and corporations to which we did not have before
Thank You councillor Cheyne are there any other
questions from the committee seeing none we’ll go to speakers anyone
wishing to speak on this item saying nothing it comes into committee
but okay CalSTRS Shriner did you want to speak
sure mr. deputy mayor sir first of all and I think chose he knows
it and so does Antoinette how the utmost respect for the staff of the city and
the work that they do always but they also know and it’s a learning experience
that when you have three minutes I need people to be quick and prompt on their
answers otherwise my three minutes are gone before I can ask my next question
and that frustrates us when we’re trying to
go forward when I read this and I’m reading the initial report I’m trying
and I see that there are things missing in it because I think it’s important to
first of all better coordinated with some of the divisions we’re talking
about what they might be able to do but when I’ve asked divisions around here
where have you been consulted because we have this big chart that told us all the
people that are supposed to be part of this review that was in the other report
I asked a lot of the managers here they weren’t consulted and my concern is that
if their staff needs are different than the standard that’s in a report we’re
going down a road that might not work for everyone the second part of it is
some space is why I asked about those specifically are important to us the old
Hillcrest office buildings for the TTC that’s a symbolic place for them to be
in and also a place where we wouldn’t look for high density development and we
wouldn’t looked because it’s a historic state to change that but if they’re
going to be there in their part of the considerations or over at Elizabeth’s
route where we just put up the sound the record man sigh after looking forever as
a place to put it we should know about that and we should know about it now and
if it’s one it shouldn’t be hidden from us it should be upfront it’s for us to
consider your best recommendations our consideration of it and then a go for it
collectively at Council as to how they like to go so I’m trying just to make
sure that everything is open and upfront and in particular and no disrespect to
create tío this was approved in 2015 create do only came to life in 2018 the
bulk of this has been done by real estate people within the division until
this point in time and that’s where the knowledge is and some are working with
create but it makes it difficult to try and follow it difficult because the
chain is somewhat getting broken on it difficult because many of the people and
this here can’t even tell me they were consulted on it so it makes me question
things that I had when I was reviewing it over the weekend and trying to see
where this was at so I what I want to see is be sure that as a
for its upfront it’s open the opportunities are there for the
divisions to look we have great staff within every division they should be
involved with it and understand what their needs are so we have it but be but
make sure that you’re getting the buy-in from the beginning and not have sites
that may be difficult to work with so you don’t know find out from us now
that’s what council does shut some down and approves others that’s that’s the
way that it works in it and I just want my colleagues to be aware of it so none
of us at create a TIA or ever accused of having something that wasn’t there and
upfront for them to see thank you very much should anyone else
wishing to speak on this item seeing none on the item all those in favor
that’s carried you
you #NAME?
to sign up for a meeting and what we’re going to do to accommodate a counselor
who’s been kind enough to be with us today on a matter that affects your area
is to with your concurrence here next e^x 34 point 15 a new affordable rental
homes at John and King and Western Community a cultural hub and we have two
deputes which is why it was held and the first is Norma Silva not here
and the second is Virginia Sylva Aviles thank you so much for your patience I
know it’s a long day and you have probably seen the others three minutes
and we’re glad to have your thoughts today yeah good afternoon my mother
apologizes for not being able to be here her name is Norma Silva and she wanted
to end in her absence I will be more than glad mr. mayor and all of you
honorable people to give you some excerpts of the court proceeding that
happened over ten years ago regarding when children’s they took members of
Children’s Aid Society took my six barely six months old son they took him
into they kidnapped my son pretty much and now it is so hard for for us to get
the family together with all of my children because we don’t have
affordable housing and we live in a horrible run-down apartment that that
was actually condemned a number of times and the late Rob Ford he was there three
times and he investigated and it was absolutely horrible
and he had to wear a hard hat in order to because the the roof has fallen a
number of times so the thing I wanted to say
is that please do build this place and that in in this particular world I never
had the chance to speak with that particular counselor mrs. Aggie Miri
unfortunately we went to the Oscar Romero is anybody listening we went to
the okay we went to the Oscar Romero to apply for emergency housing but we were
denied because they claimed that because of my place of origin like that place
was built for refugees from El Salvador and also they I have been some people
from Nicaragua nor other Latin American countries but because I came some years
earlier my family immigrated from Ecuador some years earlier we did not
qualify for the townhouses so they we told them we’re gonna lose the children
I had a very bad feeling but there was no human heart for us to we knock a
number of doors including I tried to speak with you
mrs. argument on a number of times some years ago but you refused to hear me and
only now you you claim I know you cannot give me housing but it still sorry you
still I still feel that as a Canadian born outside I deserve to be heard
because I given the best years of my life to this country and I have
contributed including 15 years as a sweet solid waste environmental caucus
here at City Hall and I was my first babies that I helped to give birth where
the blue the green and the grey boxes in at least I deserve to be honored because
I help you until to three o’clock in the morning
arguing with coca-cola in all kinds of top-notch well-dressed lawyers but then
I was a young teenager and I gave the best years of my life to this city and
to you and even if I were to live you will have a picture of me when you see
those blue boxes in your backyard whatever you put them
it is me my heart my love for this city and for my gratitude for Canadians you
follow what I’m saying and in the next minute I’m sorry
yes yes something a
little bit different here today which is to create affordable housing in Weston
and it’s in a different area than councillor Alger marries area but what I
would like to do is just see if we can’t perhaps reestablish some contact between
yourself and the city housing people and also maybe councillor aljahmeir if
that’s where you are no no I’m not in I am NOT in aljahmeir
I am with that constable Joe Christie Joe Cressy so I am just want to point
out to you guys that in light of the past the terrible past what had happened
you cannot give me back the 15 years that I have lost with my children yes
but by the same token what I’m telling you is that there is a gap huge gash in
the system I understand and my heart goes to
everybody who has left and still living at the Oscar Romero place and I do and I
have fought with people from El Salvador shoulder to shoulder and God knows that
a lot of people told me you got no business talking in advocating for El
Salvador people from Central America because I was born elsewhere
in my heart has been there as a sister back then and now as a mother and of
course as a Canadian okay so that this is the reason why I’m here and there is
an awful lot of gossip your honor mr. mayor and that’s why I am here in order
to establish the thing I’m not going to sleep with somebody from El Salvador
just to get housing there okay anyway I live to you the community culture hubs
yeah I think we are 25 20 to 25 years too late well not too late because there
are more seniors alive in coming up and we we need to have a space if it’s true
that it is good the regular Western European health management or health
care we also need the holistic ways at the local a thing they don’t need to go
to Switzerland or come to my country you know to get massage in my bath and what
have you you you say well I would love to have you all four million of
Canadians but I think we we need something more tangible and cheaper at
affordable prices all right well you know so I’m gonna have to stop because
we’ve we’ve had twice as much time as everybody else got today and that’s
because you had a very important story you wanted to tell and so what I’d like
to do is have you perhaps just talk to somebody whether it’s from my office and
just make sure that whatever help and further input that you want to give that
you have a chance to do that we just can’t do it here indefinitely so I would
love to give you guys if you want to finally get involved and also show you
an excerpt of the nonsense that I have to put up with with children say and the
gossips stops here okay you follow on gossip not I will fax you sir that’s not
happening here Children’s Aid is not our responsibility but we can certainly
listen and we have some people that can sit down with you for a minute
right now all right I need to clear this time okay housing I don’t need okay
we’ll help thank you thank you very much for coming today and for all your
patience and waiting to be heard thank you good luck with all of your
challenges thank you I’m sorry no it’s no problem I have to meet you under this
circumstances mr. no no problem although I give you a hug on southsun st. Claire
which I also helped to build that’s all something okay okay god bless you ma’am
thank you very much but all right then we had we had next to questions of staff
are there any questions of staff on the affordable housing in the western
community cultural hub all right any speakers back out there nuts yeah yeah I
just briefly ask the committee this is in Ward 11 in Weston just to briefly for
the committee to support the recommendations this is a good news
story actually this project we had an event Friday at the site and hopefully
the site will be completed by the fall and it’s the Artscape it’s the
partnership with Artscape it’s the cultural hub and as well as affordable
housing and this is this is very exciting news for my community and we’re
looking forward to the opening and the ribbon-cutting actually probably in
September in October so I just like to thank Sean
that was a that’s been involved in it over the years and as well as the the
farmers market that were happening having along John Street so just ask the
committee to move the recommendation some might be half please and down on
behalf of my community thank you any other speakers I will just say that I’m
happy to move the recommendations because I was holding it for deputations
and this is one of the great projects of our city that’s gonna bring whole new
life to a hope for everybody to Weston and I think it’s spent I was out there
for the groundbreaking and it’s all gonna be fabulous so I’m happy to move
it and I think if we’re ready for the question we’ll call the question
all those in favor opposed Kerry if I could just have a word with just counsel
I just calculated just on something because the next item actually it comes
in the ordinary course his item 34.6 and i think this is a number of one of a
number that you’re holding that has to do with a concern about open data am i
right and are those got to be fairly
expeditiously I just want to get a feel because we have a vote let’s see one two
three we have three or four of them that you’re holding just I want to see if for
some efficient way we can deal with them so we can just keep moving a motion that
have worked almost staff on the desegregated data item and is it is that
what what thirty four point six response times and service levels that’s the same
point right no sorry it’s not too different you’re holding that for a
different reason yes oh okay I’m sorry I thought they
were all being held for the same reason no all right then thirty four point six
is next it does not have any deputation so we’d go straight to your hole and I
hold I got I can have I have a couple I can let go now if you want you oh you do
okay let’s do that then I’m always happy to get things off the agenda which ones
so number ten thirty four point ten supporting equity goals with
desegregated data data I have a motion or two motions that I worked out with
staff okay and I can let that one go all right now dude before we do that whether
it was there anybody else counselor Agency was holding it and any questions
of staff otherwise we can move to your motions they support the recommendations
and the motion that the counselor worked out with staff because that doesn’t mean
they support the recommendations no I I understand completely but but I guess
when we see it well no but that so do we have those motions calls thirty four
point ten so the the first motion at the end I’m basically asking that I’m
basically asking that whatever we do be any data that’s released in the future
is done within the parameters of the Open Data master plan and the the second
motion basically asks the work to be done in conjunction with the chief
information officer and to include the chief information officer and the chief
transformation officer okay any questions of the mover alright
any anybody do want to say anything more I mean I think it’ll look pretty
straight pretty self-explanatory anybody else wishing to speak because
otherwise we can first call on the question on motion number one to amend
the recommendations on 34.6 all those in favor opposed carried motion number two
moved by Councillor Ainslie on amending 34.6 all those in favor opposed carried
and then the item is amended 34.6 all those in favor opposed carry and merit
or number 14 replenishment for school lands acquisition replenishment funding
for school land acquisition I can release that I have mine just that my
questions answered excellent thirty four point ten so the
will you move then the staff recommendation on that yes so we’ll all
right and is there any other speakers any anything else before it besides that
all right all those in favor opposed carried so that was 14 and we did 10 so
that was good program we did 15 so that’s good progress all right so let’s
try and get back into order here that I think brings next to number 34 point
nine nine thirty I know we did we we did six I’m sorry okay I apologize okay 34.6
then would be next again the council aims are you were holding that yes
that’s the response times and service levels precision so I was I held it I
had a motion that councillor wong-tam and councillor Tracy had skin concerns
and they asked me to move a motion on their behalf which I think the clerk’s
do we have a cost okay is that okay now has this been
circulated or not because it looks quite long I’m sorry can I hold it down and
have it hold it down and then hopefully it might be it might
be non-controversial when we get there and we’ll come back to that as okay with
you can see yes can have it circulated yeah no I would you actually do that
it’s exactly the point so people can read it and we circulate that thank you
all right then that does bring us to thirty four point nine I believe right
thirty four point nine equity responsive budgeting and we do have two deputies on
that Leila Sarah Ghani woman’s habitat of Etobicoke miss her Ghani here okay
and then we had Emily Paradis examine is Miss Paradis here all right there
they’re not being here we would move to questions of staff we’re there questions
of staff want Ike weir is equity responsive budgeting okay if I hear none
let me just go back to looking at the I’ll move item here Whitman nation’s
spray receive for information yes oh yeah they were held down because of the
deputations by me so otherwise that the moat the recommendation here was the
executive k received a report for information may I have ready for the
question all those in favor pose Kerry thank you so that’s nine let me just go
back and just keep track here so that brings us next then to 13 34 413 oh yeah
we we have Miguel spoke to me first thing this morning and said could we
could he get on early and I said well there’s a number of items that didn’t
because there was something so Miguel it’s early it’s your lucky day it’s your
lucky day and so we’re going to go to that because it’s next item with
deputations and it’s the city of Toronto’s 34 point 20 indigenous
cultural competency training and Miguel Evita Velarde is here with us and you’re
welcome so three minutes sir anyway that picture of motion that was made in March
19 2014 with regards to the Truth and
Reconciliation Commission and their 94 recommendations I believe that 10 of
them applied at the municipal level I am so happy that the City of Toronto
implemented this Lanyrd knowledge meant and I’m so glad that during that time
there was no inconveniences by by City Hall to add this to the ceremony opening
ceremony for City Council but the problem is lays between other
Commission’s board in arenas currently there are none I can ask are already
blew considerable out if they do it the TCS Union and she will say no if I ask
anybody else here who sits in this table in the Rotunda if there are if they do
this aknowledge wing are their committees where there are chairs or sub
chairs so my my request is well one of the difficult board members sorry one of
the most difficult bodies of governance I think as the police board where you
sit mr. John Tory so I would like to request in view that we are celebrating
the National Police week that this Thursday you will do the owner to reside
this land acknowledgement to members of the Police Services Board as part of the
education process we must continue with this programme that it was
work in collaboration with the Aboriginal Affairs Office which I still
have no updates on who are the five members to be selected to adisyl of
regional affairs office that supposed to work in collaboration with the city
manager Peter Wallace I believe being moved to Ottawa and we have a
replacement so I’m concerned that the replacement of Peter Wallace will
continue on with this commitment to establish the Aboriginal Affairs at City
Hall so mayor Toria will be nice if you can provide me
with an update as to how is the recruitment process going on to
establish the Aboriginal Affairs Office and I believe there is money in the
budget for 2018 to made it possible I only had three minutes and I want to
thank you mr. Musa Torre for they work you down so far and we should good luck
thank you thank you very much Miguel and I’ll just say that I was just going to
look at a motion that I could put to just ask the city manager to report back
on those places where a land acknowledgment is not presently I made
and perhaps advise us about that and how we could go about seeing that that gets
done and I hear what you’ve said about the police board this late I think it’s
later this week and so so I thank you very much for your deputation I heard
the message and I’m just gonna see I’ll just complete that motion in one minute
and are there any questions of the deputy all right just gonna give this to
the all right so this this if by approving this recommendation we would
be actually then going about doing what I had written down here which is
actually asking all the bodies and agencies to do this and so I think
Miguel it accomplishes what you want and that I guess all we we’ve made the
request and I think since there are bodies and agencies they will comply
with the request and what we’ll do is maybe see if maybe we just add if we
could that the city manager would report back to the executive committee in say
the first quarter of 2019 on the progress that’s been made on making sure
it stopped on the you know on the report back to the executive committee in first
quarter of 2019 on compliance with this request it sure if you wish yeah so
while she does that to clerk the clerk does that good would you like to ask a
question of staff’s a little unorthodox when we it’s not a problem to go ahead
the deputy mayor Thank You mr. marish a question for staff I just want to
understand I guess the technical or the mechanics
of this we’re gonna request all the Toronto agencies and corporations to
require board members and staff so I take it that that means every person
working for the agency to participate in city of Toronto’s indigenous cultural
competency training so for instance you know a thousand workers at Toronto Hydro
would they have to come to City Hall to attend a session like how do we foresee
operationalizing this particular item and can we actually do it well it
depends on three you mayor the what what we’ve done is we’ve developed indigenous
cultural competency curriculum that’s applicable to the Toronto
servus so in principle so what we’re doing at the city is that we are using
the procurement process to find vendors to deliver it for city staff so
presumably other agencies and corporations could also go through their
procurement processes to hire vendors and could we share curriculum with them
certainly and and I think that’s what’s envisioned that would be practicable yes
so as to how they roll out training to all of their staff are the different
agencies and corporations I can’t speak to that so would I be correct in
paraphrasing then the key is is that we’re requesting the corporations and
agencies and boards to develop cultural cultural competency training but it
doesn’t necessarily have to be the prescribed city of Toronto’s indigenous
cultural competency training it would be a an adapted definition that is suitable
for the organization would that would that be a correct paraphrase that there
are other there are other training programs available but I think that
there is something to be said for the city’s curriculum because it is it is it
is specific to the municipal context so yes they die think it would be best for
them to have the option of if there are other trainings that are more indigenous
cultural competency curriculums that are more clickable to perhaps a housing
context for instance but the City of Toronto curriculum should be an option
that’s available but you’re correct about perhaps not mandating that it be
ours thank you thank you deputy mayor and I
had councillor Pasternak with a question Thank You mr. mayor through you to staff
are we requesting through this motion that the chair of these very various
agency boards and Commission in their opening calling of the order included in
their opening statement is that what we’re getting at here because it’s not
really clear it would be the similar
acknowledgement that our standing committee chairs do at the beginning of
the meeting it would be very similar to that and it would be mandatory on the
chair of all of our agency boards and commissions
include this as incorporated as part of their opening of the opening so part of
the meeting we need a council change of the rules of order or is this can this
be done right here now or so what the request should be is council isn’t
directing they’re requesting the agencies and corporations to incorporate
this and we would communicate with the agencies and corporation a through
experience they normally are more than willing to comply I was at an event last
year and a native leader came up to me and said that how were our opening
statements are in historically incorrect now I look I am NOT a historian I wasn’t
going to debate it with him but is there unanimity and the statements were making
at these committees there is unanimity in the statements that the city makes
other organizations have different statements and that’s certainly
something that we have we’re open to and adapting as we get to make it as I guess
as accurate as we can get it so yes the city the city the one that’s used that
council and committee meetings that the city is what we the city uses as a
standard blind acknowledgement and is that amendable over years or would we
ever consider amending it or yes my understanding it’s really mayor is that
the the land acknowledgment that we use was was developed through consultation
but the city certainly open to considering any new information that we
have about what the land acknowledgment should include okay thank you
questions and I don’t know if it was oh please go ahead counselor but thank you
very much I think this is fabulous this is here before us it stemmed from a
letter that I wrote way back in the day and this is going I think a long ways to
with our Truth and Reconciliation and I would just encourage my counselor
colleagues and that as we found out last staff council meeting that we have
started the indigenous cultural competency training for our counselors
offices and ourselves so if you haven’t signed up please sign up for your staff
this is a fantastic opportunity in education for us
Thanks thank you very much concert McMahon now there any other speakers I
will just speak only to put formally on the record the emotion that I’ve asked
that the clerk will put up on the screen here that simply asks for a report back
to the executive committee in Q 1 2019 on the progress to achieve the two
objectives which is to have the line acknowledgement done at different City
boards and agencies and so on and just so we’ll know how really it goes along
with councilor Pasternak’s questions about how we’ll though that it’s
happened and so we’ll get a report back from the staff on that so if there’s no
other comments or anything we’ll all just ask first for for the amendment
that it’s in front of you here all those in favor of the amendment all those
papers yeah thank you you stay there long enough you’ll
probably get a vote and give it to me although the item as amended in favor
Kerry opposed Kerry thank you next item is
it’s the city with the standards respondent 34.6 big red oh all right
then the next item that has deputations is 30 4.25 election accessibility plan
and we have to decadent smear slab savage and Emily Daigle so Miroslav
glavish please you
all right let’s gravich you’re on three minutes thank you very much you know the
rules come on you you can hear me okay yes loud and clear thank you I’m only
going to focus on one little sentence the first one City Council requested a
clerk to use all reasonable efforts in election recruitment to achieve the goal
of hiring number persons with disabilities yes you should in my work
workplace 49 percent or 48 percent run that is with people with abilities yes
she you should people with disabilities have a harder a harder time gaining
employment and when you work for city elections recite for the elections of
office and you know at the gym when you check people’s ID cards and all the
stuff to vote they get something I worked with the left student here
Ontario for three the past three three elections it’s great but our see are the
people that the city clerk when they hire people for the elections should
reflect a the diversity of our city it doesn’t you could hire Emily right here
so please hire not just posted we’re hiring a number of persons try to get at
least thirty percent forty percent or higher not just a type for me that seems
like a tiny tiny little number the wording is I don’t like the more the
better reflect our diversity thank you thank you Miss Claridge very much Emily
your turn three minutes I’m sorry I you I apologize
you’re quite right are there any questions of the deputy okay thank you
Emily but you’re a good catch there and now it’s your turn thank you very much
well counselors I just like to see this I am very proud of the fact that I’ve
gotten to work a the last election I was the accessibility coordinator at Metro
Hall for the poll a huge job I also did a couple of other jobs during the day
because people either got tired or they were having problems or need to go on a
break we had a massive line up accessibility issues were yeah there
wasn’t quite a few but I think the City of Toronto elections people are amazing
human beings I won’t say any names because I know one of them and I can’t
remember the other lady’s name who were amazing for me I think that we should
get in touch with different city agencies such as CNIB spinal cord injury
Ontario C IMT abilities variety village different agencies that would be able to
connect you guys to the very people who would really really appreciate these
jobs I mean it’s but for the most part less
than two hundred and fifty dollars so it won’t affect our ODSP and for the big
thing that I’d like to see is I’d like to see when they hire an accessibility
coordinator or training staff that train people with disabilities and train
others to help people with disabilities the one thing I would like to see and
this is a dream is that we could have accessible locations where people with
disabilities feel welcome the election staff do a very hard job
and I very much appreciate what they do and I just like to
thank councillor Ainsley and councillor Mary Margaret McMahon and other
counselors counselors shiner and councillor Thompson and councillor
Pasternak because their communities people are empowered unfortunately one
of my favorite councillors isn’t in the room councillor Crawford
he has variety village and many people with disabilities and I think that
people with disabilities we are equal human beings and when it comes to
elections the proportional rate of disabled people that don’t vote because
they don’t think their voice matters is disturbingly high and I think that
having people at pole locations and working with Elections Toronto much less
Elections Canada and Elections Ontario but having people that live with the
disabilities and that know what the voters are dealing with and just want
these people to be able to get out vote I think that’s vital I think elections
Toronto Toronto election should have one the diversity hiring a word and not TTC
because TTC none of the red smarts are people in wheelchairs and there’s no
designation of above grounded and under the subway like in the subway system so
we can’t do the job which there’s some of us like me who know tediously like
the back of our fingers so Toronto elections is where I love to work and
and I I dream of doing more of it thank you thank you
Emily are there questions of the deputy all right well we thank you very much
again for your patience in being here today and for both of your deputations
are there questions of staff all right other anyone wishing to speak well I
will just speak and make a very short motion that I have say oh did you okay
the my motion simply if you’re the clerk can put it up it really just addresses
the comments mr. comment mr. glavish made and the same point I think that
Emily made as well which is to put in the words at a minimum
when it says to hire reflective of the representation of the general population
because I think we could probably do better than that
the clerk could but I didn’t want to pick a number at mr. clapper she had
suggested one but we if we said at a minimum and it certainly suggests we’re
hoping that they could do better than just the percentage of the population
that is represented by those with differing abilities I think that goes
some along the way to talking about what the steigleder talked about as well so
that’s all I had to say about that I just think it is it’s it’s the kind of
thing we can do that makes the difference you so very well described so
are there any other yeah just very quickly I I just want to put on the
radar screen a stronger emphasis for linguistic barriers that we experienced
fairly substantially in the last couple of Elections in Ward 10 where we have a
fast-growing russian-speaking community a Filipino community growing Korean
community whose command of English is on the weaker side and it impedes their
ability to understand the processes for in the inside the polling station and
and the voting system so we were asking the city clerk come back to executive
committee with their plan to address linguistic barriers because barriers to
voting and democracy are not just physical barriers they can be language
barriers and not understanding English could I ask a question of the mover
which is simply that if you assume that you wanted this report before the
election that you didn’t specify a time and that you might want to put in I
guess we have what two meetings left of this body or maybe three yeah I mean I
they have a plan in place so coming back in June you said June I just think it
doesn’t say that it says no it does not I should have had say the next the next
meeting next next meeting of the executive committee that is the most
friendly amendment yes all right are there any questions of the mover or
the any other people wishing to speak on this questions of the mover any others
wishing to speak councillor shiner it’s a question of the mover Yeah right we’re
sorry have you read the current policy
I counsel China I’m not sure if you heard my remarks the current policy was
in place for the last couple of elections it did not work in Ward 10 we
had a normal enormous problems in in high concentrations of populations that
did not have English as their mother tongue something was not working so this
is here too so then I revisit the my question is is it the policy or the way
the policy was implemented because I had some voting sites where there weren’t
people that could speak the multiple languages that went in it’s not solely
in one area so no my instead of just a report which could reiterate this is our
policy is there issues with the policy that we could do better and maybe it’s
one to just not have that report and ask the questions between now and council
and if there’s or deferred for the next meeting if there ways to improve it
improve it but sorry I just my reason for my question is getting a report
doesn’t always answer the question and solve the problem no but I’ve been here
long enough to things work in stages and the first thing to do is to look at the
need to to examine our existing policy and then discussing and debating and
looking to an enhancer that’s that’s the only point here wasn’t it wasn’t to
launch a debating society I just make a comment that it relates to this because
it might help us move this along the city manager I think is wisely suggested
what we could do is have a report go to the City Council accompanying this
matter so it can be dealt with instead of coming back here again
so if we if you’re amenable councillor past tracks since it was your motion to
sort of just changing to say report directly to City Council on and I think
council China is also right there what we’re dealing with here is the practical
implications of the policy because clearly there are instances where it’s
not being complied with so yeah okay so
we can we can amend that accordingly make that am a negative
we can have them report back to city council directly directly to city ghetto
nothing else again I can I speak for what no of course of course so I just
wanted to make a point that sorry I just wanted to make a point that maybe
debating it here did work as my colleague was criticizing me for for
debate we have that’s the end of my comments thank you we have the two of
them and is launched a debating society evolution one its motion one mine or the
one that I put alright so we have the two motions to amend this item motion
number one it puts in the words at a minimum and I’ll call the question on
that all those in favor opposed carried and motion number two is it ready number
two is what we were just discussing report directly to City Council on the
linguistic barriers that might impede voters so it’s really impractical
assessment all those in favor opposed carried item as amended all those in
favor opposed carried wind award to mr. chair yes
I’m just wondering if we could just vary the proceedings and complete the actual
agenda as opposed to break oh our customer break at six o’clock no it’s
funny I asked I won’t ask the clerk whether I had to do that night we got
bogged down on that and I should have done it before six o’clock but I I would
entertain a motion to to complete the agenda and that’s the motion but at I’m
on that too but we won’t do that but just complete the agenda and I think we
can do that fairly expeditiously we have got people left to be heard all those in
favor opposed carry thanks all right so that then brings us next to I guess
the next item with deputations is thirty-four point twenty eight
accessibility Advisory Committee on sidewalk cafes Marcus little saintly st.
Lawrence Neighborhood Association mr. a little here cheer Marcus level all right
we were holding that only for the deputation were there any questions of
staff any speakers otherwise we can with accounts of Thompson move the staff
recommendation all those in favor opposed carry thirty four point twenty
nine that has now mister gravich has removed his name as a deputy on that and
so again if there’s that was the reason was being held by me and so if there’s
no other questions of staff or comments we can call the question then on the
staff recommendation are they it came from the accessibility committee
all those in favor opposed carry where did I put my sheet here 30 tell that my
questions have been answered this is their 30 wheel trans appeals process yes
so your questions have been answered and you can withdraw the hold we could do
you move the recommendation absolutely spoke to TT 34 point 30 any questions of
staff any other other right all those in favor opposed carried and then we go to
34 point 31 yeah 31 34 point 31 amendments the miss will code chapter
223 remuneration for council members we had two deputies listed Derick Moran
Derrick Moran here oh yes welcome sir you have three minutes thank you for
coming I just want to say by me speaking at this meeting this shall not be deemed
to be in any way my consent express or implied in doing so as fraud God
blessing Majesty the Queen and long live her Majesty the Queen you know why
Merritt Roy what this item reminds me of is again meritorious it– the Donovan
waters law of trust in Canada Texas says in it another unintended development was
the charity and again something else Professor water points out in his trust
Texas Canadian Municipalities might well succeed in attaining charity
status under Goodman vs. salt ash corporation the City of Toronto may very
well be a charity interesting so you guys still charge people of money for
property taxes another unintended development was the charity either of
the operating or funding variety which experienced very high administration
costs had commensurately less remaining of its donated income for expenditure
upon furtherance of its charitable purposes usually it would be found that
a group of related persons or persons at non arms-length were employed in
executive positions at high salaries and other benefits for instance the charity
invested by way of low interest loans to members of the group
in other words the real purpose of the charity appeared to be the advancement
of the lifestyle of its senior employees and its board members rather than its
proclaimed objects take notice merit Orion your pledge sign code of conduct
it says I will respect and defend our laws not break them
I will act in that with the highest degree of integrity honesty and
professionalism that public office demands in short I will respect the law
now at City Council a while back there was an item something about statutory
holidays dealing with pre-prepared meals or something like that so and one of you
asked a question of city solicitor Wendy Walberg and her response was basically
well we got to do this because that’s what the court told us to do so take
notice in Wiley versus large 2015 the Superior Court of Ontario said Corbett a
distinguished between severance pay and working notice or pay in lieu of notice
in Maddox versus Smith and stone 1982 incorporated in 1990 he observed the
nature and purpose of severance pay is similar to the nature and purpose of
common law damages for failure to give reasonable notice of termination of
employment the triggering event is the same namely termination of employment
severance pay cushions economic economic hardship and provides some compensation
for loss of employment while this payment is made whether or not the
employee gets another job the legislature has recognized that the
termination of employment generally results in economic upset both
termination and servants pay are intended to cushion the economic
dislocation of the employee this is not a case of termination in regards to this
item thank you very much and we appreciate your deputations first time
I’ve seen the cover of Donovan water since second year law school maybe maybe
once in a while in practice but I thank you for bringing that to our attention
and I do not consent to councillor Thompson’s publicity stunt that he
pulled this morning my freedom of expression is being violated today
regarding said item number 32 which I was also signed up to speak on I do not
consent to that also we could say that it would have been a
waste of the PIPA disrespectful the public’s time if we knew who were gonna
defer the matter but anyway having said all that thank
you should have allowed us to speak on it voted on it thank you what you guys
did thank you very much any either now we did have mr. Glavine
just a point on a point of order mr. chair I’m sorry Cal stop so the speaker
mention of publicity stunts I actually dealt with this manner it appears that
you know folks have been berating Scarborough about the opportunity in
terms of transit and it seems to me that this was the motion itself seems to
suggest now feces from staff as well as impugn their integrity and no matter
what anyone will say I will defend the right of our professional staff to
provide us with information which they have done and so you may not like it and
you may want to sort of you know if you will bring forward motions that would
suggests that this matter dealing with the extension of the blue or Danforth
subway into Scarborough was any weird anywhere near what is the Bellamy
inquiry is such a stretch and I find it’s so unfortunate that we would stoop
to this level to be in our position to a matter and bring these type of what I
call distribute to the process and the integrity of our staff I’ll defend that
any time I’m not I don’t know why you call these sort of things a publicity
stunt quite frankly I have no interest in that but I am interested in defending
what I believe are my constituents right to have better transit and I’ll defend
that any day and and the right of our public servants absolutely without know
it’s you know he just had a point of order that he made so cop thank you very
much thank you you’ve you’ve had your turn to
speak we appreciate that thank thank thank you mr. glavish we are we’re ready
to hear your interpretation on this item to do with the
remuneration for councilmembers you see finished some of you’re not gonna like
me in about five seconds so I had worse counselor person I find it very
offensive the intent of sirens is essentially for you guys when you view
people when you retire and look for a new job I ask the taxpayers you
shouldn’t have to pay you in any severance or anything for you to look
for now from our job most people are on the city when they lose their job or
when they get fired or for whatever reason there are parameter means they
don’t have severance to to pay their bills well while they look for a new job
I remember is six seven years ago when aids when I started the peeling you guys
were making ninety nine thousand dollars now you’re making 110 you can take all
that extra page like you pay race you guys gave your gate gave yourselves and
put it in the same Bank because most of us can’t do that thing in our jobs this
is slightly disgusting thank you thank you very much any questions of the
deputy alright thank you mr. Povich are there any on this matter we was what
we’re holding it for the deputations are there any questions of staff are there
any members wishing to make a comment all right that having been said then we
will just move to the question and I’ll ask out sir Robertson will move the
staff recommendation all those in favor opposed carry thank you then we have two
items left to deal with one is 34.6 which we were holding down because this
amendment here this motion was circulated by councillor Ainsley so
you’ve had time to read it I assume and then just so you know the other one we
have to deal with is 34 point 13 also being held by counsel Ainsley on the
home dialysis water rebate program so let’s just deal with them in order of
the agenda 34.6 councillor Ainsley you held this down the first thing I’ll ask
is if there are any questions of staff okay then
the speaker’s councillor Ainsley over to you sir yes so thank you mara Tory so
I’m putting this motion forward it has been circulated this has been put
forward on behalf of counselor troi C and councillor wong-tam whose awards in
the downtown area have a number of different business improvement areas
that have concerns over the the work that’s being done by city staff and the
timelines and parameters and the BIA s are saying they in fact are doing work
and paying for work that they think should be done by city staff so I put
this forward I have had consultations with staff and I understand councillor
Crawford is going to be moving a motion to have this put forward to the 2019
budget process all right thank you ken frensley councillor okay deputy mayor
holiday wanted to ask you do want a question or did you want to make a
speech well all right we’ll do that first and then you’re gonna make them
later thank you mister so I’m just gonna be moving a motion that the atom
together with councillor Ainslie’s motion be referred to staff for
consideration as part of the 2019 budget process all right I just want to check
anyway just one quick Lee doing service level changes in reviews it’s not the
place to be doing that if we support this and it goes off the council we’re
gonna get another 30 to 40 more requests so we just need to put it in the proper
direction which is budget process for 2019 so I’m moving referring the whole
item plus that thank you very much and then we can we’ll deal with that in
order when the time comes but we had councilor Hollett I would concur with
the the notion of councillor Crawford that you know I can come up with
questions I can have for service levels in Ward 3 and I’m not interested in this
anyway and I don’t support this amendment and
they will support a referral if if that indeed does carry thank you all right
any other people wishing to speak or ask questions of the mover okay if not then
I think in order we deal with the referral motion first and
so I’ll ask I’ll call the question all those in favor of the referral to the
Budget Committee budget process opposed Harry and I think that renders the
second one redundant and it will go off to the Budget Committee for their
disposition so that then brings us to item PX 34 point 13 the home dialysis
water beep rebate program and that was being held down by councillor Ainsley
yes I don’t have any questions the staff I have a motion that I’m an amendment
I’m moving all right so the the amendment I’m moving is Toronto City
Council request Renault hydro to implement an electricity rebate program
to support residents of the City of Toronto who participate in the home
dialysis program so what’s before us currently is we’re asking for a rebate
system to be put in place by our water department for home dialysis there’s two
key components to it there’s the residents have there’s a water cost
there’s an electricity cost so the electricity costs generally is about
twelve to fifteen percent of their water cost if you look at so this is a program
that’s been downloaded on municipalities by provinces right across the country on
one level I was going to ask that the province should be asked to reimburse
the city for the cost if you look some of the research I’ve done for home
dialysis if it was done in a hospital and a provincial a run Hospital
when you take into account all the staffing operating in budget costs it’s
about thirty thousand dollars per person annually that’s been downloaded on us so
I don’t think we’re gonna get anywhere with that but I think that if we’re
gonna do a water rebate program I think we should be asking Toronto Hydro and
implement a rebate system for the electricity portion Thank You councillor
yeah I had some question to you go ahead counselor oh you could too but did you
pre circulate this motion cuz I didn’t see this coming at all no I haven’t okay
I guess I just don’t know how I can vote on this I don’t understand the
implications Toronto Hydro is a separate body you’re saying actually to implement
versus consider or review I said request well we’re Toronto Hydro to implement so
it’s a bit of wordsmithing there but I can’t support this until I understand
the implications of it in a more detailed fashion questions of the mover
I had was a sort of a similar question but just like to ask you if I could
the do you have you mentioned the number I think of 12 that the the the hydro
hydro costs associated with with dialysis treatment done at home is about
12% or 15% of the water cost yeah no the water cost in here and and where did
those numbers come home did you get that from hydro or from no I had to so when
this came forward I had five of my resonance that get home dialysis that
they came forward I do a lot of work with the local hospital so people came
forward to me and said that you know this is great that we’re doing water
rebate but the other issue for them is the cost of electricity so I just was
wondering consistent with what councillor Robinson said whether you
would consider and this is my question you know I think what you’re saying is
entirely consistent first of all and secondly there is no question but that
the province saves a lot of money or they save the cost the electricity to
them because the people are not in the hospital
it saves untold other amounts of healthcare expenditures by those people
not having to be in the hospital at all and have the facilities and whatnot but
I think everybody would feel more comfortable if somehow without bogging
this down into long periods of time where there are more studies come back
that you could get that you could ask them to to advise us or some such thing
that would tell us the parameters because I think what councillor Robinson
is saying is that we just don’t know anything about what we’re asking them to
do here I’m fine to take any amendments on this council Robinson whatever makes
people comfortable with council Robinson I’m just saying maybe the councillor
Ainsley seems to be amenable to asking the hydro board to give us the
parameters or give it to themselves I mean like in other words but we do I
think you’re like me I don’t know how much this is we hear councillor NZ
saying there’s a bit of an anecdotal collection of evidence that says it’s 12
to 15% but we don’t know yeah I was I was going to ask if you’ve given any
consideration to other people have medical challenges who are using an
exponential portion of electricity to for medical equipment or medical
treatment is this fair as I don’t know we’re talking about home dialysis this
is the parameters of what I brought it forward under and what my residence
brought it forward under well why don’t we get more information and I just
because I think there’s a consistency to this given that we are dealing with
water and I’m not presuming and whether people will vote to approve this but
it’s a consistency did you counselor a deputy we’re all d3 mr. mayor –
councillor Ainsley I wondered if it would be considered a friendly amendment
to suggest that city council requests the province to establish an electricity
rebate program to support citizens who participate in the home dialysis program
and I would just simply ask that cuz I have no idea what the regulatory
concerns may be of this type of a program but the province has various
rebates programs for all sorts of things and if we ask them to do it it may be
something that they can navigate I don’t know just a thought I’m counter all the
day they they won’t do it for water I don’t think they would do it for
electricity all right you know just question I just say that just one second
that that hydro is the wrong place to ask about dialysis patients because they
won’t know how many there are or how much electricity they use that you’d
have to get more more complete information than your sample of five
which is a good indicator I suppose I’m just trying to think of the right way we
can do this so we don’t send it off to it for a useless inquiry to Toronto
Hydro who wouldn’t know I mean because they they don’t know who the people are
that have home dialysis so just we have the estimated numbers in the report on
on water water views in water right those from I guess all right counselor
shiner did you have I’m trying to understand here what the additional
electrical cost is because if it’s citywide sixty one thousand for water to
a hundred ninety one we’re talking about nine thousand dollars citywide and
rebates for hydro or for hydro hydro given that he said dwells that about
the amount that is citywide so the the exam so the people that came to me they
said that on average if they’re doing eight hours of dialysis according to the
schedule they spend ninety dollars a month on water and they spend about ten
to fifteen dollars a month on electricity so do you think that we
could actually run a program that would cost less than what the actual rebates
are for everyone the city that would ask it because of the cost of putting
together a program and running it with an application a verification a rebate
program the staffing that’s required for the pilot question or for for you’re
talking six thousand dollars citywide you’re talking ten bucks a month for
someone they think that’s really a rebate program we should get into and
set it up you think that’s a good use of Toronto hydros money because everybody
else is going to have to pay for the staffing to operate a rebate program and
the rebate I mean I understand the thought but do you think that I think
it’s a good idea counselor shiner I think it’s a good use of money knowing
that the most they get is sixty bucks a year that we’re gonna put a rebate
program in for that to run it it may well be consular shiner just I’m trying
to just you know bring this some conclusion because I think your points
are also valid that maybe we could go back to the original motion which
requested the trial hydro maybe not to implement but to
to consider an advise on and they will cover off you know the question you just
raised for example is whether it’s even I mean how do we even find out who these
people are that have to be a self declaration or you’d have to get the
data from the province of the hospitals but if you said you know from the water
department who they are it’s a hundred and if it’s so if it’s on a high end yer
and you’re being charged $15 a month or one hundred and seventy dollars a year
for electricity don’t get me wrong counselor subject to the point that was
made earlier people who might have one of those you know those things you have
overnight if you have sleep apnea that would cost a lot of electricity because
it’s on for 12 hours every single night and so you have to sort of ask about
that but I’m not concerned with that if we wanted to just ask about this and ask
them to advise us it’s more on counselors shiners point about it about
how well you could implement it I sort of think maybe the they suggest you made
about the province that they could just put down one of those credits that
people get you know now for their expenses and say you could include this
but having said all that we could ask the board of hydro I think of what you
remember and ask them to tell us could they do this given the list that we
obviously must have for to do the water thing I just wonder if you made that
small change yeah I’m fine with you know consider and
advise on electricity they’ve already changed it you consider that a friendly
amendment and I think we have some support for that your point still stands
but we may as well look at it and see what they say they say they could do it
with a flip of a switch and just make a change to people’s bills then cost them
nothing that’s a good question I guess has to come somewhere I mean so it may
as well come here so why don’t we just didn’t ask it to report back to a there
should be no reason why I can’t come back here in time for our say July
meeting I mean but just you know after all right let’s so we have the that
motion which has been changed and so well let’s have speakers on them on all
those matters we’ve had questions to the mover speakers councillor shiner
territory I’m sympathetic to everyone who might be in need and understand
Oh even $15 a month could be a substantial amount to those that don’t
have but if we’re going to start going down the road of offering rebate
programs I think we have to know a little bit more about a lot more about
what their costs are and a fairness in the system as to who’s getting rebates
because rebates are not free for one person to get a rebate someone else has
to pay for it in an increased rate because Toronto Hydro doesn’t generate
electricity they purchase electricity and they purchase it and then resell it
so I can’t support this in any way I don’t think the amount is that great and
if there was going to be a consideration of the cost of home medication for
people and those expenses on them I think that that’s something that should
be province-wide in an area like this not just something that should be for
the city alone where I can guarantee you that the cost of studying it will
probably be more than the cost of doing it and the cost of doing it will be more
than the cost of the rebate so while the thought is you know appreciated for
those in the request that was and we can’t fulfill the cost of every one that
asks because five people that are on dialysis said if you’re gonna do water
how about doing hydro which is ten percent of the cost
I think we’re doing a lot by asking for everyone else in the system to pay for
the water it’s a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year I think asking
for a rebate program within the hydro system when we buy the hydro from
someone else anyways we don’t make it I think is beyond what we should be doing
so unfortunately in this method I can’t do it if the counsellor comes back with
something to look at something province-wide with some facts and
statistics behind it that we can vote with that show us what the costs are and
the hardship that people are having that I would be sympathetic and support that
wishing to speak to this I think we’re probably ready to put the question on
the motion and then the item as amended or not so first is the amendment moved
by councillor Ainsley as as as friendly amended and I’ll ask for the question on
that all those in favor councillor Ainsley’s recorded vote all those in
favor of motion won by councillor Ainsley this is the amendment to ask
Hydro to look at this councillor Ainsley councillor Bulow councillor DiGiorgio
councillor McMahon Mehra Tory all those opposed councillor Crawford
deputy mayor holiday councillor Pasternak councillor Robinson councillor
shiner and councillor Thompson motion loses five to six yeah I’ve just said
good six to five yeah 5 to 6 hat okay thank you very much
now is there any other business that we need to transact today I think that oh
I’m sorry oh I’m sorry yet the item has not
amended the item has not amended all those in favor opposed carry any other
business for today well thank you all very much I’m glad we got through is a
long agenda and we had lots of discussion on some of the bigger items
appreciate it thanks to our staff as well all of our city staff and the clerk
staff appreciate it

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