Infrastructure and Environment Committee – May 23, 2019

Infrastructure and Environment Committee – May 23, 2019


Good morning everybody. We have quorum. Welcome.
For those in the room with us the screen at the back of the room provides real time updates
concerning where we are in the agenda and what’s coming up next. You can follow the
agenda in real time on your tablet. In real time on your tablet.
Diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. We also acknowledge that Toronto is covered
by Treaty 13 with the Mississauga of the Credit. Are there any declarations of interest, the
Municipal Conflict of Interest Act? Can I have a motion to confirm the minutes of the
April 25th, 2019, meeting, Councillor McKelvie, all those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
Okay. Why don’t we run through the agenda. Item 1 contract record request for proposal
number 42-04-195019 for construction of water mains and amendments– detailed design. I
think the title of that’s going to be longer than the debate. Does anyone want to hold
that? [off mic] move it. Moved by Councillor McKelvie.
All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
Item number 2 amendment to purchase order 602-5318 for headworks and odour control updates
at highland treatment plant with — Canada limited.
[off mic] moved by Councillor McKelvie, all those in favour. Opposed.
That is carried. Item 3 we have a deputant so we will hold
that item. Item number 4 contract award for tender call number 54-20199 for rehabilitation
of four bridges over the Don Valley Parkway. [off mic] you’ll move it. Moved by Councillor
Colle, all those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
5.5, school crossing guard program update and results of the request for proposal, 9148-19-0114
for provision of school crossing guard services. I’ll hold it.
I’m actually glad someone’s holding that one. 5.5 is held.
5.6 approving access to fire halls converting existing parking prohibitions to stopping
prohibitions. [off mic] Councillor Layton is moving the
staff recommendation. All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried. 5.7 accessibility
review on-street bikeway design guidelines. You have to hold that, there was something
— — does someone want to move — [off mic] we just want to — I think we want — let’s
hold it down. We want to refer to the general manager of transportation.
Yeah, we’ll hold that. 5.9 — oh, sorry 5.8 credit valley Toronto
yes held by Councillor McKelvie. 5.9 is there’s a deputant, so we will hold
that. 5 — is that a cell phone? 5.10 management
of solid waste contracts under transition to full extended producer responsibility model
with a confident shall attachment. [off mic] number 11 future operations and
maintenance agreement amendment. I’ll hold that.
So there’s 2 — there’s 2 new items to walk on items that have not been distributed.
Maybe I can get consent for them any way. Pasture ravine initiative and proposal. All
those in favour just on adding it to the agenda. Carried. And this is from Councillor Minnan-Wong
closure of Don Valley Parkway ramps, all those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
And that, I believe sets the agenda for today. Are there any — that’s it. Okay. We’re good
to go. Starting off with item 3, Frank — thank you very much for coming.
You have five minutes. Ready to go, the microphone on, yeah. Good
morning, committee members and special hello to counsel Jennifer McKelvie who is our elected
member forward 25. My name is Frank moyer I live at highland
creek and for the past 10 years I’ve been the co-chair of the waste water treatment
plant neighbourhood liaison committee known as nlc. I’m here to inform you that the nlc
supports chief engineer’s recommendation that the contract for the supply installation of
the new emission control equipment for the highland creek waste water treatment plant
be awarded to — water technologies and solutions Canada. This is the culmination of the process
that was initiated in 2002, when the new City of Toronto commission — master plan to provide
direction on the future management of biosolids generated by the city’s treatment plants through
the year 2025. In 2017, council approved the highland creek
biosolids class environmental assessment that identified and value waited in detail the
possible options for the best disposal method for the highland vehicle biosolids. In addition
to environmental and financial studies the ea included add health impact assessment conducted
under the guide dance of the staff and the Toronto Public Health unit. — the majority
of the members of nlc supported this recommendation as did all 5 local community associations.
The incinerator option has acceptable health impacts, significantly lower capital in 25-year
life cycle costs and most importantly had much less environmental impact on the residential
neighbourhoods that surround the plant. The existing incinerators are now more than 40
years old and need to be replaced as soon as possible. We’re pleased to see that the
city is proceeding to implement the required biosolids disposal improvements at the plant.
In conclusion, I would like to recognize the significant contributions made by our local
Councillors past and present. Namely, the late Ron Moser, Jim — Paul Ainslie and most
of all Jennifer McKelvie until recently was an enact the member not only of the nlc committee
but also ccra and scro. They all helped us get to where we are today. Thank you.
Thank you very much my final sentence, please approve the award of the incinerator contract
as recommend by the staff yes, no we figured that was your message. Thank you very much.
Any questions for the deputant? No. Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you for coming in. Bring it into committee.
Questions for staff. Did I see your hand go up Councillor Layton
pardon me? Did I see your hand go up?
No. Any speakers. ? Okay.
Okay. Who wants to move the recommendations. Councillor McKelvie obviously you’re a local
hero so you might as well. All those in favour of the recommendations
before us. [off mic] opposed. That is carried.
Councillor Colle, I believe you held 5.5 down school crossing guard program.
[off mic] yes. I was delayed. Can we — we can do this crossing
guard thing next. I have an interest in item 1 and item 4.
Which were released and I was wondering if we could hold those down because I have some
questions. Mr. Chair, I’ll move to reopen those 2 items.
There’s a motion to reopen. All those in favour. Opposed.
That is carried. So you’ve asked for item 1.
Yeah. On a point of order we may need some staff
to get back on one of those items. I think the crossing guard yes, that will
take long enough. It was 1 and — 1 and 4.
4 4 was released, I think. Okay. So we’ll consider those 2 items back
on the floor for debate. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So why don’t we deal
with crossing guard and then we’ll back to item number 1.
I dropped an item of closures is that your walk on item?
Yes. We’ve added it to the agenda. Okay.
Yes, walk on. Councillor Colle, you held the item down.
Questions for staff. Yes in terms of item ie5.5, the staff is behind
me I think, sorry for my back, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I think this is a good opportunity to
give us a bit of an update on the status of our crossing guard program. I know in the
past the Toronto police services has operated and managed the crossing guard program.
Where are we at with the transition of the crossing guard program over to the City of
Toronto transportation? Through the chair, I’ll start with that and
if there’s some additional details I might look to staff to fill in. So you’re correct
in — I think the crossing guard program has been owned and operated by the police since
1947. And as part of the transformational task force work that was done and brought
to council in 2018, the recommendation was to ensure that police were doing core policing
services. So a couple of programs were proposed as moving to the public service to deliver,
one of them was the crossing guards. The proposal was to move it to transportation where we
have been working with the police to figure out the best way to deliver those services.
In the 2018-’19 school year the commitment from transportation was to deliver the backfilled
portion of that service meaning that when a guard did not show up at a scheduled time
and location previously police would send an officer to backfill that location and that
was not only costly but also problematic in terms of taking police away from their core
duties. What they’ve asked us to do is to figure out a way to deliver that backfill
service in 2018-’19 which we did. And using best available information on how to prepare
to staff that through a consultant contract, we found out that the number of back fills
required to keep the program whole was almost a hundred a day, and so we’ve had some challenges
in 2018 and ’19 ramping up to be able to deliver that backfill service but we’ve been able
to do that. And at this point we’re almost between 80 and a 100% fill on a detail basis.
Currently with the contract transportation services was also working with our partners
in purchasing, and in police to develop a request for proposal for the breatheder delivery
of the crossing guard program as part of vision 0 and as a school safety initiative. So that
RFP was released in April, I believe, and we received the bids from four companies,
two of which we are recommending through this report to move forward. And that would allow
us to begin servicing the crossing guard program under transportation services in the fall
of this year. In terms of the backfill program, so on an
average day, how many crossing guards essentially failed to show up?
On an average day approximately a hundred guards, now, some of that is day of, so I
would say approximately 30 to 40 of those are day of fills where people weren’t able
to show up for their shift, others were because people had retired, so a permanently guard
might have retired or a new location might have been warranted and moved forward without
a permanent guard to fill it. When police have to backfill those locations
they have to go out and try to hire somebody and do background checks. It does take some
time to get a guard if place. We used our backfill contractor to fill those positions.
So are we at this point in time still using police officers to backfill?
Through the chair, we are not and we have not been since September of this year. We
took over the backfill portion of the program in September of 2018.
Now, because I guess those police officers were taken off another — were they paid duty
officers at 50 bucks an hour that went into backfill?
My understanding is they were on regular shift, and were deployed off regular duties to do
the backfill. Okay so they’re no longer doing that. So where
do you get — at present time where do you get the backfill guards to come in when there’s
a failure to show? We are currently working with 3 vendors, one
vendor that has mostly been providing day of back fills that we started with in September
of 2018, and two additional vendors that we brought on in 2019, at the beginning of the
year starting after the winter break in order to make sure that we were able to fill backfill
locations that were permanent in nature. So we were required to put permanent guards in
places where they were not — where they were either new or had retired posts.
In terms of the numbers, how many crossing guards are deployed in the City of Toronto
right now? 700 or something?
Right now there are 660 guards and in September there will be 710.
How is this compare in numbers to what existed, you know, five years ago or ten years ago,
any ballpark figures? We know that — we know that in September
of 2018, there were 610 guards. And so in — in the 2018-’19 school year alone
there were a hundred locations that were added. Some through warrants that — you know, there’s
been a independent up demand, I think for crossing guards, so a number of warrants that
had been put forward previously were approved. So there were locations that were added in
the 2018-’19 school year. And that’s why the program has become so large. I don’t have
the numbers from five years ago. [multiple speakers] but as you said they basically
the number is increasing. The number is increasing, and in part, I believe
the number is increasing because the process by which the warrants were — the warrants
requests came into police did not have as much structure around it as we now — so we’ve
taken — transportation services has taken over the warrant process as of April 1st,
and so we’ve created a bit more structure around the process of applying for a new crossing
guard location. Including requirement of either the local Councillor or the principal to be
involved in that warrant which was not the case previously. So anybody could have put
in a warrant request for a crossing guard and they would have been reviewed by the police.
That was your last question Councillor, Colle okay. Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong.
Yeah, I just want to go back, how many locations do we have for crossing guard.
[off mic] 660 in place right now in September there will be 710 locations approved.
So there are now 660, and from the 660, has that number increased?
Since September what was it? It was 610 in September of 2018.
610 in 2018. Now, we’re increasing a hundred locations.
This year, and I think in part because a number of warrants were processed this year so a
number of locations were approved this year has the warrant process changed over the last
while it’s changed April 1st. No, sorry the evaluation process has it become
easier to get a crossing guard? The valuation process hadn’t changed up until
April 1st of 2019 when transportation services took it over. Prior to that it was anybody
could apply for a guard. They would go through a warrant process that police would evaluate.
And if you’re interested, I think you know more about that process.
So maybe you could answer yeah, so through the chair, the previous process anyone could
basically request a school crossing guard putting an email through to the chief of police.
Following that the police were basically obligated to undertake the review. The review would
look at gaps and traffic at the specific location of crossing.
If it is approved then the police would basically go through the process of trying to see if
they could find an individual to fill that position right away. And so from that perspective,
what we’re looking at in the data in the past it appears the program was growing at a rate
of 40 to 50 new guard locations per year. As indicated as of April 1st of this year
transportation services basically took over that program and basically provided a lot
more structure to the program such that now for example, anyone who’s requesting a crossing
guard whether it’s a parent or whom ever has to also seek approval from the local Councillor
and the principal or the principle as well too before we initiate an investigation into
whether or not a school crossing guard should go at that location. We’re looking at using
the latest process that came from the Ontario traffic councils where they got all the municipalities
the school crossing guards programs together and established a new process that has a little
bit more of an urban focus. Subsequent to that we would basically then
evaluate whether or not there’s an immediate need to fill the crossing guard, or if it’s,
you know, the crossing guard is warranted at the location but we would basically ensure
given the budget and sort of our control measures on the budget that it would go onto the next
cycle. For example [off mic] sorry. Do we ever say no?
Yes yeah, I was just getting to that. If there was a location not deemed warranted, we would
be able to look at the neighbourhood from a holistic perspective and see whether or
not there are other safety improvements that could be implemented that would mitigate need
for a school crossing guard how much does it cost for the school a year 35,000 — at
one school how much does it cost the city to run a crossing guard?
Through the chair, the guards are not speaks fietd to schools, they’re at intersections.
Fair enough it’s $35,000 a year per location. Have we ever looked into the idea of cost
sharing with the TDSB? Through the chair, we’ve never done the program
before so we have not looked into that. We were directed to take the program over
from police and so that’s what we’ve been working on, that model.
And what was the program before and how much of an increase are you asking for now today?
Yeah, so through the chair, under the police they were operating they had reported that
they were operating the program at, I believe it was 10 million — sorry. The exact figure
here. Yeah, approximately $10 million per year [multiple
speakers]. However that cost — however that cost did
not include the cost of back filling the positions with uniformed police officers. It also didn’t
include the cost of their hr, payroll all their administrative functions, management
of the team. That was the best information they had at the time they were able to provide
to us what are you looking for approval today? We’re looking for roughly $24 million per
year to operate the program. And that cost basically is all inclusive of contracted approach.
That’s your last question okay. I’d like a second round on this one. Over a 100% jump
is a big deal yeah, no, it’s a lot of money here. Any other questions for staff? I have
a few. Councillor Peruzza.
Just take us through the life of a crossing guard. How many hours a day would a crossing
guard typically work? Yeah, so through the chair, crossing guard
typically works or is required to be on there anywhere from 3 to 3 and a half hours a day.
I guess the issue is because they’ll go to a site in the morning, then they have a couple
hours break in between, then they have to go back to that site lunchtime a couple hours
break and then back to the site in the afternoon. So essentially we’re asking them to commit
their entire day, but from a compensation perspective we’re looking at just typically
the 3 hours. So we pay typically 3 hours a day to a crossing
guard. Through the chair it’s actually about 4 hours
per day. 4 hours.
Yeah, with the estimate we provided to take in consideration the travel time between shifts
so 4 hours and we equip them obviously, right we give them that flat jacket that they wear,
the hat, the stop sign, right? So equipment costs are included within that
which would be the vest you’re correct as well as the whistle as well as the stop paddle.
So vest whistle, hat and the stop sign, right? Correct, yeah.
Nothing else? Yeah, through the chair, there are other ppes
that would be added as well too, things like rain coats, snow gay, this kind of thing or
safety boots depending. So we provide safety boots to all of them?
Yeah. Through the chair with the contracted model that depends. It’s really the responsibility
of the vendor going forward we basically stipulated those requirements within the contract that
depending on the circumstances of the particular site — [technical difficulty, please standby]
. So they were basically paying the minimum
wage for the four hours and what are we going to be paying?
We’ve done an analysis as Roger mentioned the Ontario traffic council in 2018 they released
best practices related to crossing guards and recommended part of the way to get more
compliance of people actually showing up for those 3 shifts is to pay them closer to $17
an hour. And so the contractor will make the determination ultimately of that cost, but
it will certainly be above $16.97 an hour. And in terms of how and where they’re recruited
from, is there any consideration being given to sort of recruiting people locally like
from, you know, given neighbourhoods that reflect those neighbourhoods?
Through the chair, absolutely. With the program starting in September of
this year there’s a need for 710 crossing guard locations as we identified.
From the latest records we have from the police they indicated that there’s about 600 crossing
guards in the current compliment, so number one it’s going to be — behoove the vendor
they try to rehire as many of the existing crossing guards as possible. They still have
a shortfall they’ll be looking to fill and most certainly be focusing on trying to get
people who live relatively speaking within the same neighbourhood.
And in terms of the, I guess the — let’s call them qualification that you’re looking
for, what would a crossing guard typically need to — like — is there like a test of
sorts? Through the chair — speak English, you need
to, I don’t know, what would you be looking for in a crossing guard there’s a number of
guidelines and requirement that is the police had for the school crossing guards. And we
essentially just adopted that and included those requirements within the RFP contract.
Can you [multiple speakers] they’ve got to have — that’s your last question.
Their eye sight has to be good, capable and mobile, one of the most important things is
they have to go through the police vulnerability seconder checking as well too to make sure
they don’t have criminal records this kind of thing.
There are a number of requirements stipulated by the police.
Who does the training? Through the chair within this contract it’s
the responsibility of the vendor to provide the training, however we’ve got an ongoing
relationship with Toronto police service where they’ve been providing assistance and sort
of train the trainer type setup. So even over the past year essentially what had happened
is the police would bring the vendor in, train up their supervisors and those supervisors
would then be responsible for ongoing training from that point forward.
Okay. Councillor Peruzza you’re well over 5 minutes. I think Councillor — Deputy Mayor
Minnan-Wong has asked for a second round which is fine.
Anyone else questions for staff? Haven’t you had your go?
. So just back to a point you mentioned earlier about the cost of last minute fill ins for
crossing guards who don’t show up, by the time someone realizes that a crossing guard
is not going to show up, and a call is placed to whether it’s police services or some kind
of replacement pool, wouldn’t you think by the time the replacement got there the kids
are all gone, they’ve either gone home or into the school, it’s just too late.
You’re talking about a very short window that there’s intensity traffic intensity at these
sites. So we’ve been — we’ve been tracking the same
day fill requests as you’ve described those that come in the evening before, the day of.
Typically they get filled by the lunch shift. So very often there won’t be a guard present
that morning unless — if we get it the night before often we’re able to get a guard there
in the morning, otherwise they would be filled by the lunch shift.
I see. So when it comes to delegated authority, are these community councils that will have
the final word on who gets a traffic guard? Yeah.
Will the reports go to community council. And if the crossing guard is son a TTC route,
does it have to come to full council? So our proposal is since it’s a city-wide
issue we’ll bring this back to this committee — if there were policy changes required or
other kind of actions required related to contracting, otherwise we would — we would
bring it through the budget if we had an increase and required an increase in dollar amount,
bring it through the budget process. So, okay. So a principle and the local Councillor
wants a crossing guard, they bring a motion to community council for staff to study it,
the warrants come back to where? Community council here?
The warrant would be initiated by someone, it could be initiated by a Councillor’s office,
principle, initiated by a member of the public who had some approval either from the local
Councillor or the principle. And we would not accept the warrant unless
there was con currency from either the local Councillor or the principle that they were
supportive of that proposal. Then we would do the warrant review post that approval.
The warrants are not similar in technical aspect but similar in study to a stop sign
where staff would report back with their results? The process of — school crossing guard under
transportation is part of vision zero. It’s a school safety initiative. And so the purpose
of having a crossing guard is to ensure that at locations where there are higher volumes
of students crossing and perhaps complicated traffic movements that we have somebody there
to do active traffic management at the intersection. And so the warrant would be the approval if
they are approved through the warrant process, again, we tried to put the local Councillor
and the principle at the front end of that process in saying we would support a proposal
here and then we would move forward and we would respond back to the applicant with the
results of that warrant review, and of course, we would — we would also communicate that
back to the Councillor and the principle. Does it have to be adopted by community council
or adopted by the City Council, no? Not to my knowledge.
Okay. It’s my understanding from my school board days that the principle of the school
is responsible for the safe I guess delivery of students and departure of students in the
morning, they’re the ones who are really responsible. And you’ve mentioned them in passing has very
engaged in this process. Is it correct to assume the end of the day
the principle is responsible for safe dropping off and picking up of their students after
school? I would say assume that is true. Where we
find often crossing guard locations are is not directly in front of the school. So very
often they’re you know on the arterials that are perhaps in the community safe zone kind
of a little bit larger net cast there as well as on school walk routes. So they may not
be immediately at the — you know, within the school zone. In terms of who’s ultimately
responsible for the safety of the students I would assume the principles have a significant
role and probably a stated role in that, but I think transportation also has a role to
play in ensuring students who choose to walk to school are able to get across those intersections
safely. Okay. Thank you very much.
A second round has been requested. Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong.
Yes, I have questions of the Toronto police service. And I see the CFO there, I was wondering
if he might be able to answer some questions for us.
So through you, Mr. Chair, the transportation services has given us some very — has used
some very strong language in saying that the task force where the transfer of the crossing
guard program was supposed to be net neutral is hardly anything but that, and I was wondering
what the Toronto police services agrees with the comments that they’ve — that the — that
the services that were transferred are far more significant than what was — than what
was anticipated. So through you, Mr. Chair, what I will say
is that from when we — when we’re still doing the program now the number of sites has increased.
Certainly as transportation staff have indicated, backfills under the contract would be a hundred
percent back fills as opposed to us putting a police officer there whenever we can to
actually backfill. So there was a number of things that changed during that period of
time, the number of sites, the number of hours that these school crossing guard will be paid.
The rate that they will be paid at and I think that contributed to a significantly higher
cost. That add up to an additional $13 million,
is that — did you when you — did you include in your assessment the cost of administration,
the cost of all the extra staff that you needed, was that included in your program?
So we actually transferred 7 and a half million dollars to the transportation services division
based on 6 and a half million which is direct cost to us for paying the school crossing
guards, these are 2018 numbers, as well as about a million dollars in what we call administrative.
What we have is in divisions we have police officers accommodated officers who might be
doing this role as well as other roles. And we have some dedicated civilian people that
also provide that administrative role. And so we basically split and shared about
a million dollars of that cost and transferred it over to transportation so they can continue
to provide — or get some relief in terms of the administration that was required. Then
it was decided that they would go out to the market, this is now the I guess results of
what the market basically says it will cost to do this program.
In your financial documents, how much did — do your documents show that the program
costs? When you take everything into account in terms
of direct costs, equipment — you said direct costs, and that — so I’m — there’s overheated
as well, there’s overheads as well. I would say probably around with everything in 9 to
9 and a half million dollars. Your direct and indirect costs.
In other words the hiring process, the background process, dealing — taking into account the
opportunity costs of police officers having to do school crossing duties as opposed to
actually answering calls all that probably adds up to like I said, 9 to 9 and a half
million dollars. Okay. So you disagree with the arrangement
where I think they said the previous costs were $12 million.
I don’t know what that $12 million — have you had a chance to review this report?
I’ve looked at it this morning very quickly. I didn’t see exactly what the $12 million
included. I can tell you that we transferred 7 and a half and that was approved by City
Council. Let’s say it’s $12 million, they said too
here that they have a hundred more crossing guard locations, so that would leave 12 million
from what is it 24 million here, so that would mean that a hundred more locations cost an
additional $12 million, I think that’s a bit of a stretch wouldn’t you?
It’s quite the increase. So there seems to be some disagreement between
Toronto police services and — I don’t think there’s a disagreement, I think what’s happened
is we’ve transferred the program to transportation and given them our best estimate in terms
of what that costs to run the program in house with police officers and civilian staff who
are doing that job part-time. You’re now asking the market to basically come in and vendors
to say how much will it cost to run the program based on a number of additional sites based
on increased number of hours and increased rate in the pay, and so — and backfills.
And they have to administer the program and make a profit. So all of that adds up. Certainly
I was surprised I’ll be very honest with you I think most people were with the cost but
that’s what the market has said. So Mr. Chairman, I have a question of the
general manager of transportation services. So we should keep the work in house sorry,
my question is this: If — so would you agree that this program
could be run with a modest salary increase and do you think you could run that for anything
around — he says it only costs 7, $8 million to run. Would you agree with that analysis,
and could you with the additional salary increases in administration run it for more or would
you disagree with the comments that were made by the Toronto police services?
Well, through the chair, so we did an analysis of what it would cost to run in house for
transportation going from no management and oversight of crossing guards to what we thought
was a reasonable balance of one supervisor for 20 guards to be able to ensure that they
showed up and that they had that support. And in order to do that at the 710 permanent
locations we came up with the figure of $25.1 million to run that program in house annually.
So certainly you could — there would be some band width within that number with regard
to how many, you know, you could do 30 to 1 in terms of the supervisor to guards you
could change that ratio, but I don’t have any argument in terms of what police costs
were coming over to us. I just think that the program in order to get consistent fills
and to have a hundred percent delivery which is I believe what the community expects given
that when we don’t have crossing guards at locations we get a pretty hearty earful about
folks not showing up. And that had the appropriate level of oversight
to deliver. It doesn’t cost over $10 million to get — to
get that total fill that you’re looking for, does it?
It’s certainly a cost component as well as the salaries [multiple speakers] in addition
to the salary, I think it was what did we have that in the report, what was the break
down? Okay.
That’s your last question. I hope you don’t want to go to a third round. Thank you. So
their work hours are quite strange, aren’t they could you just give us the outline of
their work hours? Through the chair, in terms of their work
hours, again typically it could be an hour to an hour and a half per shift and they would
have to do 3 shifts per day, anywhere from 3 to 3 and a half, 4 hours a day.
They’re essentially committed to the entire day because really can’t do anything in between
but the typical compensation is just the three hours.
Yeah, so basically they go in the morning, for you know between I guess 8 and 9. And
then they have to go home wherever they go, then they come back at noon until 1 and then
they go home, and then they come back from 3 to 4.
How can a person really be recruited when they’re working these really unusual hours
they can’t get a second job. So how is the recruitment challenge going?
Well I think the recruitment challenge is significant. And I think the cost of doing
payroll and administration to manage a guard program of this size is also quite significant
because as you rightfully pointed out it can be difficult to manage that schedule. And
it can be difficult to recruit people into those positions as well as them having to
have some component of background checks in order to be able to do the work. And so retention
is challenging and it’s one of the reasons why the Ontario traffic council indicated
that the cost per hour of a guard’s salary should be closer to something that would encourage
retention and people to be able to full those positions as opposed to having a constant
series of back fills which we of course experienced this year and police have always experienced
and again had to deploy officers to do that backfill in order to ensure the safety of
the school children so the $14 an hour is not going to attract people to this very unusual
shift work. Through the chair, again, we’ve been very
involved with our partners in fair wage and very involved with looking at best practices
in the province and all of that has led us to this floor of $16.97 an hour as the base
and we think that it’s probably a little higher than that. But again, it would be up to the
contractor to set those rates. And in terms of the recruitment of these crossing
guards, as Councillor Peruzza mentioned, they seemed to be retired people or mature people.
I rarely see young people as crossing, I did see one — I seen one near central tech there
I saw a young person I said wow the younger generation crossing guard. Is there any attempt
to recruit newcomers, students, to become crossing guards rather than just going to
the traditional retirement — the gray pool? Through the chair, absolutely.
In fact, we’ve been working very closely with in terms of the poverty reduction strategy.
This particular project was basically selected as a pilot for one of their programs. To specifically
help facilitate just that. So can we potentially do some through the
contractor that we’re thinking of especially employing here can we do this outreach to
the diverse community, the new comer community who are looking for work before they, you
know, get full-time employment, is there potential to reach out to these underemployed you know
segments of our society that they might be able to take on this as I said, it’s very
unusual shift work, but it would pay 16, 17 bucks an hour.
So through the chair, absolutely. We are going to be engaging the 2 vendors we’re recommending
specifically in those discussions and try to place that emphasis and focus in hiring
recruitment I would also add that our partners here at the city, we’ve been working with
them over the course of year — with who? Sorry, Toronto employment services not getting
the acronyms exactly right because I always just refer to them as tess but pat — and
her time — social services, thank you. They have been working with us on recruitment
strategies especially targeting newcomers and folks who may be in communities, people
may be parents who are whom with children much of the day, but may be in there community
and able to do that kind of work. We’ve been looking to expand some of the options
around recruitment strategies for new guards because we believe there will still be a consistent
need to recruit new guards into this program. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you Councillor Colle. Councillor Peruzza.
I want to better understand this just a little bit. So even with the wage increase I’m going
somewhere between 16 and $17 an hour, you mentioned earlier that 8 — a guard costs
us about $35,000 a year, a location, correct? Through the chair correct that’s assuming
the contracted model okay. So $35,000 a year. They work — we pay them four hours a day.
At best, I come up with a number somewhere between — so what — what will a guard who
shows up every day for work for a typical year will they earn?
Sorry, through the chair just a correction in terms of the value that we quoted, that
includes basically all the management, all the oversight — I just want to understand
the break down, okay. Right, right.
What does a guard typically earn in a year like if he shows up every day?
Yeah for a crossing guard through the contract model roughly about $19,000 a year.
I come up with around 14,000. How many weeks a year do they work?
Through the chair, that’s also taking into considers travel allowance an other benefits.
So travel allowance, so someone who shows up every day can — will fill in a t4 for
his or her crossing guard duties around $19,000 a year through chair, correct.
So between 19,035,000 there’s a — sorry. The amount that we calculated was actually
13,000 3 hundred a year right that’s the number I was getting but I was getting 13,600. Okay.
So the difference between 13,035,000 is basically about 21, $22,000 a year.
Yeah. So so the rest of the money I’m assuming is
all administration. I just wanted to clarify the number provided
there’s a difference between the salary that individual will earn or the hourly wage. And
the employer burden as an employer it’s not just a salary it is also then the additional
taxes as an employer, ei premiums, et cetera, so that number that was quoted would be what
the employer burden would be on top of the salary component.
Through the chair I would also add that one of the components he were asking for was some
assurance that guards actually showed up during the day. There’s lots of extremely dedicated
guards a who show up without fail rain or shine and certainly some that may or may not.
We found with a backfill and our contracted services we were sending our staff out to
audit locations and make sure that people were showing up. So in the contracted model,
again, in order to deliver it, we’ve asked that the contractor provide some assurance
of that so that includes some GPS tracking and other pieces so their guards can confirm
they’re on site for the hours we’re paying them for et cetera. So there are as mentioned,
some additional components that 35 — or $31,000 per location is an all in cost.
There’s no other way to do this where we get that the gap between the actual cost of a
crossing guard and the — and the — and the program, you know, a little more in line it
sounds — it sounds a bit outlandish to me in terms of what actually someone makes on
the ground and what it costs us to deliver the program, the number just doesn’t work.
Through the chair, we’ve, again, we did explore an in house model with all the requirements
we articulated. I don’t think our assumptions are out of line in terms of wanting to have
a hundred % backfill at those locations. I think that’s what expected at the program.
If you were to have somewhat less than that I think one of the challenges with running
a crossing guard program you have again a lot of very hard working people on this strange
shift model. And so you want them to show up and you want it to be a priority and one
of the ways that the Ontario traffic council has recommended to do that is to pay them
a reasonable rate in order to incentivize that behaviour and on the other side of it
certainly we would have to have — some kind of way to ensure that guards were at the locations
they were supposed to be at [multiple speakers] Councillor Peruzza — last question. Have
we ever thought of like working with local schools to deliver the program through them?
Wouldn’t they be in a much, much better position to be able to sort of, you know, eliminate
a lot of that overhead and a lot of that administrative — so through — the transportation task force
we were mandated to take this program on. Certainly working with the schools, you know,
I don’t have experience as per se here school boards are lots and lots of things on their
plate as well. Is so taking on the management of a crossing guard program is also a huge
challenge for them. So it’s while it may be in — you know, aligned certainly with their
mandate of providing safety to students getting to school, in terms of the actual administration
of such a program I think they would find it even more of a burden.
They get their supply — Councillor Peruzza [multiple speakers] and you don’t want to
hand this over to local schools is my commentary on that. Any other questions for staff?
I just have a couple. Now, the number I jot the down was — oh it’s in the report 710
locations for September, is that — through you, that is correct.
So with approximately 600 TDSB schools and 200 catholic board schools you’re at about
800. Now, those are schools not locations. So it’s actually less than that. So let’s
say it’s 750. We’re pretty well at every publically funded school in the city would you — crossing
guards are not assigned to schools. They are at locations and some locations may have multiple
crossing guards assigned based on the intersections in the vicinity.
So there are some schools that have in their vicinity as many as five guard locations is
my understanding. So the crossing guards go to at the request
of schools in the local Councillor and are responsible for the safe crossing of school
aged children. So we can say that their school locations are really the primary sort of area.
There just may be sited at multiple intersections in that catchment area.
So do we go beyond schools, do we do any institutions, any community centers, places of worship,
private schools? [multiple speakers] certainly the catholic
school board schools, some private schools, yes, but no other institutions.
Okay. All right. That’s it for questions. Speakers. Councillor Colle.
Yeah. Thank you. And I want to thank staff for their work on this. I know it hasn’t been
an easy transformation from the police as everybody thought it would just be the re
allocation of the 7 or $9 million over to transportation we would do it.
But I think it’s obvious this is a very challenging and complex file that we’ve transferred over
to our transportation department. And it is going to continue to do that — be
that in terms of providing the service and the financing of this program because the
demand is never ending given the heightened concern parents and communities have about
safety around schools, given the vision zero initiative where we’re trying to make our
streets safer. And so it is really a challenge. I would think that we have to perhaps look
at perhaps finding out whether other municipalities or school boards or — do do any cost sharing
with the local city services on this, at least if we could just maybe find that out going
forward, are there any models where there is some cost sharing or other ways of perhaps
underwriting these costs, because they’ll continue to grow given the continual pressure
on our streets with increasing traffic and speed and distracted driving, the epidemic
of distracted driving we have. And I’ve talked to the general manager of transportation about
a situation I have in one of my schools it’s on avenue road just north of Eglinton Alan
b public school where the 2 crossing guards there have not shown up in the last week.
And we can’t find anybody to take their police until June.
So you can imagine the parents at this school are pretty nervous about not having crossing
guards on avenue road where, you know the average speed is about 60, 70 kilometres an
hour going north and south, and there had been 3 teachers that were seriously injured
and had to retire from teaching because of their injuries, never mind the students. We
have put up these metal barriers on the sidewalks on avenue road. Well last week a car ran and
jammed through the metal barriers. And so now we had — now, the community is asking
for more let’s say concrete type barriers like a wall, build a wall on avenue road so
you can — the kids can walk to school. So that’s what it’s become. And then on top of
that we’re going to have growing pressure on our residential communities because the
province is now going to increase the speed limit on our highways. And I think people
forget that we have highways like the 401, 427 running through our communities. So you’re
going to see cars speeding up avenue road even at a greater intensity, coming off avenue
road, coming off Yonge Street, coming down bathers with all the seniors on bathers, so
the Alex school which is horrendous traffic problem not even a public school but they
have — so this is going to be a daunting issue for this council to deal with. The rising
costs of providing crossing guards. And I think we’re going to have to look at
ways of dealing with this growing pressure on our budget, on the communities that are
affected by these very, very serious traffic. And I’ve mentioned before, you know, I’ve
got — my granddaughter goes to — one of the best public schools in Canada but there’s
1200 kids in that school. There’s not even any signs or any lights there
indicating there’s even a school. 1200 kids every day go back and forth and cars are speeding
up and down. The parents are asking for — and I talked to Councillor Perks about it, he’s
working on it, we’re trying to get a traffic signal on the street. So it’s going to be
a never ending challenge. So I think we’ve got to maybe go forward with this. We don’t
have any other alternative here, there isn’t appear quick fix to this. And if you don’t
pay people they’re not going to show up for these weird shift jobs that are out there
that are out there and the public is going to demand more of these crossing guards so
it’s not a rosey picture out there when it comes to crossing guards.
Thank you, Councillor Colle. Councillor Minnan-Wong.
Are you ready? Okay. I’ve got 2 motions the general manager transportation services the
chief CFO report directly to council on the true costs of the crossing guard program and
transferring the budget program — the second motion is that general manager transportation
services report directly to City Council on cost sharing arrangements with the local school
boards in providing school crossing guard services.
Partly in response to Councillor Colle’s concerns which I share.
I have 3 — I have 3 comments. Comment number one, this is important report,
and it’s complex report. It has financial implications, community-wide implications
and it was dropped on our desks yesterday and I’m not terribly excited about that. And
I think we need — we should have gotten this with the regular agenda.
So, Mr. Chair, I leave that with you to deal with. Secondly, when the Toronto police transformational
report came out — Toronto police services was going to save all sort of money et cetera
was going to be neutral and I specifically asked about the crossing program and the crossing
guard program. And I was constantly reassured, oh, yes it’s going to be neutral, it’s going
to be neutral, it’s not neutral. And there’s a financial implication to this and the City
of Toronto needs to be made whole. So if we were in some way led down the garden path
and it’s not neutral we need to be made whole. That’s the reason for my first motion.
24 is an expensive program. I think that we’re going to get continued requests for more crossing
guard locations, and our capacity to provide this level of service is going to be continued
to be constrained if not get more constrained and we have to look at divent ways to kind
of find ways to pay for this. And one of those ways potentially is to look for local schools
to and the school boards to be partners with us. We already provide them with a lot of
things. It’s a big cost for us, and we can’t continue to pay those additional costs and
still provide the range of municipal services that we already provide.
Thank you Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong. Anyone else to speak?
I’ll just to be just very quick, this is one of those occasions where Councillor Minnan-Wong
and I I think are on the same page about ensuring that the full cost of the crossing guard program
is realized, and we look at what the real implications were of transferring it over
and ensure that it wasn’t just a way of — for one year the Toronto police meeting a budget
target by transferring that cost from one division to another. So I’ll be supportive
of certainly the first recommendation. I’ll support the second one because it’s about
dialogue with the school boards. And we certainly get a lot of requests — I’m less convinced
that will result in any additional funding, but to enter into a discussion I see no problem
with that. Thank you Councillor Layton.
Councillor McKelvie. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to thank
city staff for their work on this file. When I started on December 1st, the first
2 weeks many, many phone calls were coming into our office from moms on pta groups about
this program. And those calls have slowed. So thank you. The other is that while crossing
guards are a step in the right location I think we have the vision zero coming in as
well and we really need to think about how we can be encouraging our kids to walk to
school, and using these crossing guards that are there, and getting the kids out of the
cars. And I’ve been in front of school zones where you’ve been able to look down the street
and see the parent and the kid walk out of the house, get in the car and drive to the
school. We need to work on driving behaviour and hopefully through implementation of this
program that helps people realize that there are these safety mechanisms in place, and
while we are building all this infrastructure in vision zero there’s just no substitute
for the traditional crossing guard. So thank you for your work on this file.
Thank you, Councillor McKelvie. I would just simply say that I would agree with Deputy
Mayor Minnan-Wong that we always thought that it was a wash, that it was a program transfer
to the city, that it was in the 9 to $10 million range. That it would pretty well stay close
to that, but if I’m reading this report correctly, we’re going to be looking at a little over
24 million in the coming fiscal year. I guess that’s 20 — 2020. At the same time there’s
high demand for this program. Parents and schools are asking for it all
the time. I think that in a couple years this is going to be a $50 million program throughout
the city. And I think it is incumbent on us to ask school
boards to contribute. At the same time I pay tribute to all these crossing guards. It is
a very tough shift situation to handle an hour here, an hour there, an hour at the end
of the day. I see them out there on freezing cold days. I see them out there in the pouring
rain trying to control kids within a walking 12k3w4r0e7b, drivers who are not paying attention.
It is a very tough job and certainly worthy of the increase in pay. At the end of the
day it’s going to save lives it’s going to protect kids, it’s going to give parents and
schools the comfort they need that their kids can go to and come back from schools safely.
So on that, we have oh, Councillor Peruzza you’d like to speak. Please.
I’d indicated that but — apologize. You can wrap up.
I’m going to support the motions as well. I’m happy about a couple of things, one, that
crossing guards are going to be paid a little more money.
That’s very good going from $14 an hour to 16 and change closer to 17, I think that that’s
— I think that that’s a good thing. It’s — it would be interesting to take a
look at what it actually costs as it relates to the police. You pay a crossing guard $14
an hour and then you backstop, you know, when someone doesn’t show up with a police officer
at, I don’t know how many dollars an hour, and how that — how that sort of, you know,
translates, you know, across the system in terms of actual moneys, but it would be interesting
to see. Brew the thing I guess that I’m worried about here is that we’re taking over a program
which on the face of it looks like it costs a fraction of what it’s going to be — it’s
going to be costing now. It’s an important program.
But I’m worried about the sort of the difference between what a crossing guard earns all in
with ei, with the employer contributions, with all of those other things, and what a
— what a location costs even though we do provide, you know, this jacket and a hat and
a when I say sell and a stop sign and possibly boots of sorts weatherized boots and a raincoat.
There’s a very, very big difference, and I’m not sure that that’s not something we can
do anything about. Because I — because I think we need to take a look at that. Because
otherwise it as chair Pasternak suggests in short order this is going to be a 50 plus,
70 plus, hundred plus you know million dollar program. As I look at the dots on the map
as crossing guards are deployed city-wide, in the suburbs there are very few dots proportions
knitly speaking. — bring in more guards and we can’t do it
between what, you know, what it’s costing us for, you know, a person boots on the ground
and what we’re paying for them for per location. We need to — we need to figure out what that
— what that difference is and figure out how to bring it much closer in line. Because
I don’t know and I should have asked this question of the police, what does it cost
us to deploy an officer, a police officer? And what’s the difference between what a police
officer — the difference between what a police officer earns and what it costs all in?
To run that program. And it seems that a percentage wise this is a more expensive program than
to run our police services. On the ground. And I’m not sure that that’s
a winning formula. So thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Peruzza. So I will move the report recommendations. You guys can get
another crack at it at council but there are 2 amendments, two motions that are going along
with it. The first one is on the screen. All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
Second one is also on the screen. All those in favour.
Opposed. That is carried. The report as amended the item as amended all those in favour.
Opposed. That is carried. Now, we reopened 2 items this is being held
in your name. Questions for staff.
[off mic] explain a little bit about what this — if we award these contracts this is
for general work over the next four years is that what we’re looking at?
Through the chair, it’s what we call a stand-alone water main program as you appreciate huge
backlog in Toronto water and renewal of its ageing water main network. What we’ve decided
to do is we looked at a body of work of ramped up program and we felt that working with our
colleagues that this body of work relatively low risk from a construction standpoint lent
itself to a strategic sourcing procurement approach.
[off mic] It’s a multi year contract for construction for 3 years with a view that ultimately lessons
learned internationally is that if you work with the industry you’re more likely to see
more competitive pricing. There is contractor is committing both manpower
as well as equipment to a contract over the longer term and you’re more likely to see
efficiencies of scale in that regard and ultimately objective is to reduce unit value. So we embarked
on that approach. We basically split the city up in its lower risk areas again from a construction
standpoint, essentially North York — and — in the one service area and the other half
of North York and Scarborough in the other market area. We came up with a bidding process,
a low bidder is being awarded the work east of North York and Scarborough.
And the other service area, the bid prices came in much higher than what we had expected
in terms of a pretender. The recommendation for the award of that 3-year contract for
the one vendor we take a look at their bid — hence or recommendation to award that contract
for the other service area what we want to do is break out the 2020 program, go out with
a separate procurement for the 2020 program, complete the engineering design for remaining
work so we can actually issue another negotiated request for proposal in the fall to embark
on a 3-year contract if all works well. [off mic].
That drive people crazy because they’ve started all of them at the same time and then they,
you know whatever it’s convenient for them so that they can save money, they do their
projects but what that means is the road lays open and the constricted from traffic, because
you’ve bundled the contract, is that valuation incorrect or — through the chair, I think
if we take a look at the body work that is before you in terms of the procurement, it’s
lower risk in terms of construction activities. We have ensured or prescribed the number of
work sites that they could be undertaking at any one time. We pre-qualified the contractors,
these are contractors that we felt based on their submissions that they had the workforce
as well as the equipment to undertake this body of work.
So — and the recommended vendor is one who we have experience with. And they’ve adhered
to schedules and past work. So we’re pretty confident that the work will be completed
in the course of the schedules. Am you wrong in my kind of assessment that
when you bundle contracts they tend to take a bit longer?
Through the choir, they take a bit longer in terms of how the work is sequenced and
staged but typically speaking for the contracts that we’ve managed they typically stay within
schedule. The issue with water main construction there’s a bit of a wild card as we get into
summer conditions where they’re having to disinfect the. — I got 20 seconds one other
question I want to ask is because I looked at the length of these contracts and they
go out until 2023, which is a long time, and sometimes you get, you know, crappy contractors
that don’t do a very good job. And if you kind of — if you’re locked in until 2023,
you’re kind of stuck. Through the chair, so the way that we’ve handled
that, very good point, we enter into a master agreement with a contractor and every year
of work is a separate project agreement. So the next project agreement for the 2020 work
is conditional on successful completion of the 2019 work.
So that means we can deny them projects — exactly if they didn’t meet our requirements on the
2019 body of work they’re not awarded contracts for 2020 and 2021.
Can you make that decision administratively or does that have to come back here?
It’s part of the contract terms and conditions, so it’s done administratively.
Okay. Thank you, Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong. Any other questions for staff on item 5.1?
No. Speakers. Councillor McKelvie, did you want to move this item again?
[off mic] it moved once again. All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
So Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong asked that 5.4 be reopened which is it is. Contract to tender
call for rehabilitation four bridges over the Don Valley Parkway. Questions for staff?
So this is all new. When will the — so one lane will be closed going north and south
starting when and ending when? Through the chair, subject to committee approval
of our recommendation on the contract award today the expectation is the work will begin
July 1st and end the end of September and there’s a stiff penalty if they go after September
1st, yes. Through the chair, yes. The stiff penalty
is in the order of $30,000 a day for each day the contractor is delayed.
So I’m correct there’s one lane that’s going to be taken out on each side of the dvp, correct?
Correct. Are they going to be working on all the bridges
at the same time? Through the chair, that is correct. That’s
one of the reasons that, you know this is a challenging project. We have a tight schedule
for 3 months. Our original objective had been to try to
get the work done through the summer where we have lower traffic volumes, minimize traffic
impacts. I think with committee’s approval today the earliest we can start is July 1st
that’s our schedule and complete by the end of September it’s a really big deal, will
they be working during the night? Through the chair, yes, the contract calls
for 24/7 construction it’s the only way they can adhere to a three month schedule. Basically
each bridge is going to require a minimum of 2 crews running 24/7, huge body of work,
manpower, as well as equipment. The only other question I have because this
going to have — notwithstanding there’s less traffic in July and August because people
are on vacation, the go to, the escape will be to go onto Don Mills road, that’s the alternative
road right now Don Mills road is constrained because of the construction of the LRT. Do
you know if by July the 1stst whether all 3 lanes will be opened?
Through the chair, I don’t — looking for our colleagues in transportation.
Speaking of — we have actually — so at the intersection of Don Mills — or the cross
towns being constructed will it open up any lanes as of July 1st? Or will it — there
still be traffic restrictions? Through the chair, so should be opened by
July 1st, yes, we’ve been assured that it will be opened by then.
All lanes? That’s, correct, yes so cross — aware of
the work that we’re getting done and understand how important it is that all lanes are going
to be open? Through the chair, yes, absolutely have they
written to you and said that, is it oral represent — this is a big deal.
Have they committed to that in writing? So they certainly have committed to having
those lanes opened, yes, so that intersection. In writing?
In writing, yes, Councillor, you’ll recall that as part of their work they need to close
the intersection of Leslie and Eglinton, so they’re going to do that through July and
August, ie the school holidays, so they’ve committed to enable to do that that intersection
at Don Mills would be completely free and open.
All the lanes — can you give me that communication, please, or get it in writing for me?
Absolutely. Thank you.
Thank you Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong. Any other questions for staff?
Councillor Colle, would you like to move item 5.4 again?
[off mic]. Okay. All those in favour?
Opposed. That is carried. I’m going to refer item 7 to the general manager
of transportation services. All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
Okay Councillor McKelvie, I believe you held 8 down.
Yes, Mr. Chair, I had a couple questions. So the report covers a disagreement which
is dealing with monitoring and I’m just wondering if there’s — if they can maybe speak to some
of the forecast — so there’s one monitoring that’s happening in real time can they speak
to what’s being done in terms of forecasting looking at climate change what should we be
expecting for water levels, right now 76 centimetres above normal. Niagara Falls I’m told is now
one contiguous falls there’s no separation between the U.S. And Canadian falls there’s
that much water running through and 8 million liters per second flowing out from Lake Ontario,
incredible amount of water. I’m just wondering if staff could speak to what work in addition
to this is being done for climate change models and predicting, you know, is this the new
normal? The staff report in front of you and the recommendations
1 and 2 that deal with entering into an agreement with Durham and peel come out of work — for
this region. It’s a fairly large region. Ourselves, Durham and peel are a subset of that, and
the agreement and the monitoring system that’s proposed here deals with 3 or 4 very key risks
that were identified by the source water committee through the course of last few veers.
And those risks basically risk of a failure of one of the pipelines crossing one of the
tributaries, for example, highland creek, a break in one of those pipelines would cause
a risk. Or spill from the nuclear plants west of the city. That was the context in which
the source water protection worked. Source water protection didn’t go beyond that
mandate with respect to climate change. There are a lot of other initiatives within
Toronto water that are taking climate change into account, certainly basement flooding
program being one of them. The monitoring that we’re currently doing with respect to
lake water levels and impact on our infrastructure will at some point result in some recommendations
and potentially some modifications to water infrastructure to accommodate that.
And so you’ve mentioned that there’s these recommendations.
Is there a report that’s coming forward that says what these infrastructure needs will
be, like where is this information being gathered, what for example, might be that total cost
or funding bucket that would be needed to deal with if no Lake Ontario water new norm
is 75 centimetres above what we previously designed for?
Through the chair, I’ll answer that as the gm of water, not the acting dcm. So right
now we do have some buckets of funding within Toronto water as mentioned by the director
for basement flooding. And as well weather flow control. So it would likely be funded
out of the wet weather flow basket of goods because that’s dealing with rain water. What
we haven’t had to deal with is the impacts of higher lake levels.
That really did not become an issue to our infrastructure, it has to property but to
Toronto water infrastructure we noticed that in 2017. We’ve mitigated some of those impacts
this year, and so we’ve seen lesser impact even though lake levels are high. Regardless
there are issues. Down on eastern avenue we’re already seeing some flooding because that
part of the roadway is below lake level right now. So there will be a need for us to come
forward with some capital projects. We’ll likely bring it forward through the capital
budgeting exercise. And be telling council that we’ll need to
make investments in some infrastructure to say deal with high lake levels if that is
going to keep happening more frequently. That’s still the question we have, are we going to
see these lake levels more frequently? If that is the case we’ll have to make some improvements
to our near shore infrastructure. Okay. So we’re not there yet then it sounds.
No, this report in particular was tied to — monitoring — I call it the quality side
of the drinking water system, water protection making sure that we’re protecting the quality
of our drinking water, what you’re talking more about the quantity, the volume, the levels,
it wasn’t really the focus of this agreement that we have with the other municipalities.
We’re looking at the issues that you’re talking about and bring it forward as a separate piece.
Okay. Great. — yeah, that larger discussion we will need to bring in the conservation
authorities, we’ll need to bring in the province and federal jurisdiction as well, because
Lake Ontario is a federal body of water. We don’t own it and neither does the province.
So if we get into issues of controlling lake levels, you know, you’re dealing with the
entities that control the dam letting water out of each of the lakes. It becomes very
complicated when you’re dealing with Lake Ontario, we would have to bring back other
reports and other ideas of how we collaborate. The last question is I believe the bulk of
our waterfront work was done in the ’70s, so are we still using that water level as
our design criteria or already update the design criteria.
No, we have not updated or design criteria because it has only been within the last 3
years that we’ve seen these record levels happen. So that is the concern we have. We’ve
been using the old standard lake level means as the design standards. We have not changed
yet. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor McKelvie. Any other questions for staff?
Councillor Peruzza. So at what point does that sort of trigger
as well some building code changes? Through you, Mr. Chair, yes, that’s a very
good question. Because what we’re seeing is the impact to
some of the buildings that are constructed very close to the lake where they have underground
parking garages, connections that tie in, and if you have a regular currency of lake
level rising we are seeing some of those condo buildings down and commercial buildings down
in the core experience flooding in their basements. So that’s an issue that, you know, we will
keep raising. It’s not only just building code. It’s also planning.
You know, right now you look at some coastal cities and do they allow digging of basements
that close to the oceans? And typically they don’t. So those are some of the considerations
that have to be brought forward as policy decisions and code decisions in future as
we get more data. Okay. Correct, because as the lake level rises,
the underground table water rises as well, right?
Yes, two things that happen, you do get that, the raising ground water table, which then
means that the fund deputation drains collect more water so greater volume that they collect
in the buildings. Conversely, the way you design the systems that discharge that water
then typically flow from a pump scenario to a graft flow out.
The challenge that we have on eastern avenue as I mentioned is it flows by gravity back
to the lake. Right now the lake is higher than that so it has nowhere to flow. So as
soon as that pipe is full it ponds back up on land. So you can have the exact same thing
occur in buildings if you have the — the ground water table rise as well as the sewer
levels rise because you’ve got the back flow from the lake. Where does the water go from
a gravity perspective it doesn’t any more. So what triggers what? What needs to happen
first to trigger those other changes? First thing that would need to be triggered
is a discussion by all the parties, and that would — as I explained before, it’s complicated
with Lake Ontario because that is — that is a body of water. That lake level can be
controlled however there’s implications. You let too much water out shipping channels can’t
happen because we have too quick occurring. So it becomes a complicated exercise saying
oh what level are we going to take that lake to. And if you change that that will be the
— that will be I believe the ripple cause back where if we say we’re going to keep the
lake level and the new mean will be this, we have to go back and look at what does that
mean for all these building designs and our own infrastructure, that is when we would
bring forward something as Toronto water to say we have an issue here and you might have
to change our polices or our codes. But that bigger discussion has not occurred yet.
Item number 9 single use take away item consultations and reduction strategy next steps, this is
a staff report update. We have a deputant Emily — thank you for
coming you have five minutes. Good morning. This microphone working, great.
I’m the waste campaigner for the Toronto environmental alliance.
— to build a greener city for all for over 30 years. We’ve heard from our supporters
and many more Toronto residents and businesses but they’re concerned about waste, Mrs. Particular
pews — I’m here because we’re very excited by the high level of response from Toronto
residents and businesses and the strong support for the city to act to act to reduce single
use take away items and plastics, the high turnout at the first phase demonstrates just
how much Toronto cares. More than 20,000 people responded to the survey.
Hundred dollars more participated in events and meetings and contacting their Councillors
directly with letters and petitions. The message is clear Torontonians want the city to show
leadership within the city borders. The consultation shows that Torontonian support action that
includes mandatory approaches including bans fee and other by-laws especially for the most
difficult plastics. We can’t rely socially on voluntary programs, that’s the current
system we have. — range of regulations on a number of single use and take out items,
Seattle’s ban on straws started last year and the ear peen union confirmed a directive
a few months ago that will ban and restrict single use plastics in all e United States
by 2021. We know that regulations work. I urge you to move quickly on this process.
The scale of the crisis requires that all levels of government take action. The federal
and provincial governments must pass new laws to hold companies responsible.
However, Toronto and other cities are on the front line dealing with the consequences with
expensive recycling increasing levels of contamination and the cost of environmental clean up. The
city can and should use its powers to reduce plastics within city boarders. In addition
to looking at regulatory tools it’s important to remember that the city can act right now.
Torontonians want council to show leadership. The city can find ways to eliminate unrecyclable
materials and pilot test re-usable alternatives. Residents are the people who are footing the
bill for expensive recycling, cleanups and the environmental consequences.
This has and will then to provide crucial opportunities to hear from them about the
future they want for our city. Don’t delay this consultation any further and find ways
to appeal seller rate it if possible. Don’t shy away from bold solutions, Toronto
is ready for bold action and need our politicians –.
Thank you very much. Any questions for the deputant? No.
Okay. Thank you very much. Questions for staff. Councillor Layton.
Why is this taking so long? You have asked more questions at this committee
meeting than I have, Councillor Minnan-Wong. Why has this process taking so painfully long
to move forward? [off mic] I think your microphone is not on.
[off mic] [off mic]. Let’s get your mic fixed because people watching
remotely would not be able to hear any of that.
. You don’t think anyone is watching, what are they watching the view.
Check, there you go. So essentially just to recap, the — this
has taken — this is taking a long, long, long time because we want to get the consultation
right because that’s something we’ve actually made a mistake on before.
Through you, Mr. Chair to council, that’s correct.
So you’ll be considering regulatory prohibitions in addition to voluntary programs depending
on the item, depending on its usefulness, depending on a number of factors, correct?
Through you, Mr. Chair, that’s correct. So we haven’t ruled any regulatory mechanisms
out? Through you, Mr. Chair, that’s correct.
The council published kind of a white paper which was working with industry, was working
with municipalities working with not-for-profit organizations came up with a white paper on
reducing plastics and some guidelines for it, are you aware of that?
Yes. And you’ll use that in some of your — I just
need a confirmation or else you’re getting a motion.
Yeah, we will use that as a basis nor some of our recommendations moving onto council,
yes. Thank you, there’s a communication to this
item labelled 5.9.1 from wendtworth technologies, an Ontario based company, a major producer
of single use plastics that also talk about sustainable solutions, have you met with the
president who’s written? I have not personally met.
He’s got some really interesting things. And we’d be more than happy to bring him in.
So I asked him one simple question and maybe I’ll form just as my last question I’ll put
this in the form of a question. Would you be surprised to hear that there’s no cost
difference in producers manufacturing black plastic than any other colour of plastic?
Absolutely zero cost difference between them all. So the black Mrs. Particular that we
can’t recycle, can it no cost to a producer be change today a plastic that we can recycle,
would you be surprised to hear that? Somewhat. My understanding that the majority
of the black plastic that’s being used is done for aesthetic purposes but in terms of
the cost if the industry is saying they can produce it at similar or the same cost I’ll
have to take that — thank you. That’s it. Thank you, Councillor Layton. Councillor McKelvie.
Thank you, I have 3 questions. The first is could break down how or if and when you involved
youth in the consultation and age groups, numbers, things like that?
We can provide you with specific age demographics of those that have answered the polls, but
there was no specific youth engagement, however there was a significant social media and online
presence as well as web casts. I know that a lot of grass-roots organizations also helped
spread the message on the online consultations but we could look at that for phase 2 and
specifically targeting youth groups. Then on that I guess the reason I’m asking
is, is there thought as you rule out and if it’s about driving behaviour to specifically
target youth, so my daughter has this really cool re-usable straw they brings with her
everywhere now. I feel like if we want to get action that’s a group that’s going to
help with reducing as well. In actual execution of reduction strategies,
that’s an option for voluntarily measures for sure that we’d love to hear through the
second phase of consultations when we present the reduction plan.
Okay. And then my second question is how or have you had outreach with major food chains
that are in the City of Toronto, and what kind of input have they provided into this?
We did have specific consultations dedicated for retailers, food manufacturers as well
as producers of goods. In general, there was support for mandatory and voluntarily measures
although we haven’t recommended any polices yet.
That will be coming forward in phase 2 consultations, so I think phase 2 we’ll get more input from
both of those stakeholder groups on their reactions to what’s being proposed.
Thank you. And the third question is this doesn’t specifically because they’re paper
address coffee cups although lids are often plastic, so how does that work into this strategy
and what you’re doing as well? So through you, Mr. Chair to council, the
use of single use coffee cups and the lids is something that was reviewed during the
consultation process and one of the items that we have to be very cognizant of is the
equity and accessibility use of those items, and we did hear in some of the feedback that
items like straws and lids not be included as part of our review. Again, that will be
an area for discussion when we roll this out with phase 2 consultations. But we have to
be very cognizant of the equity and concerns that the community has.
And so could part — and I guess this comes into where things have fallen down the passive
legal implications and stuff but could we bring in staff where it says you have to have
the option to allow people to bring their own mug if it’s coffee for example, is that
something that would be in our mandate or able to do? Because there’s a major chain
I brought my mug in and I was really annoyed they told me that’s their policy they would
not fill it for me and I had to take a paper cup there are health and safety concerns with
bringing in your own cup, and to have to differ to legal services to provide their opinion
on whether or not we can force businesses to require re-usable options to be able to
be brought into the establishment. They’re not here.
They are here. I’m not going to comment specifically on that but I will say we’re working closely
with solid waste and there is one of the items they’re looking at. I think that will be reflected
in the report they come forward with. Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor McKelvie. Any other questions?
Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong. Councillor Colle, did you have questions?
[off mic] [multiple speakers] we’ll get you eventually.
Deputy Mayor. How much does it currently cost to process
a ton of recycling products? Through you, Mr. Chair, to the Councillor,
within the basket of goods it’s approximately 170 to $180 per ton but again, that’s dependant
on the contamination rate and then also the revenue that’s generated on the back end when
we sell that material. So it fluctuates. What’s it now?
Right now our cost is approximately $180 per ton.
And if it’s contaminated? Pardon me?
If it’s contaminated? If it’s contaminated we have structures in
the contract where we pay additional fees based on levels that the material comes in
at. If we exceed certain thresholds it costs additional funds to process the entire basket
of goods that’s delivered over the year. And so what does that look like?
Every percentage point of contamination equate to say approximately half a million dollars
worth of additional expense to the city. Half a million based on — now, you just switched
I was using tons as a value — as a measure per ton how much does it cost for a contaminated
ton of recyclables? So it’s not based on a contaminated ton, it
would be based on that half a million dollars would be spread over the approximately 200,000
tons of recyclable materials that are generated. So it’s around $2, 2 and a half dollars per
ton for every percentage point of contamination. How contaminated is the recyclables that we
produce? Currently it’s pushing around 30% contamination
levels. Would that trigger the half a million dollar
thing? Yes.
So my next question is so is that included in the 180 or is it over and above the 180?
It would be right now within that $180 a ton. Okay.
That higher contamination. And how much more would we pay if we included
single — these items? What would be the financial impact per ton? And then gross.
Through you, Mr. Chair, I’d have to take those numbers back and calculate those with my team.
So you don’t know how much it would cost you? Not for those specific items.
This report and strategy is to reduce the generation of the material that makes its
way into the stream, not to move items from one stream to another.
But there would be — so, yeah, here you say there’s no immediate financial implications,
but there are financial implications and is it fair to say when we use single use and
take away items those would tend to be more contaminated?
The level of contamination would all depend on how the material is treated by the resident
before they throw it out. So if they rinse it and put it in a blue bag or blue bin it
would be less contaminated than if they just threw it in after use.
I’m going to go to a higher level right now just generally because we’re kind on the recycling
thing. So we, fibbers there’s a company Canada fibbers processes all our material, is that
right? That’s correct.
Do they recycle all that stuff on site in Ontario, or do they send it other places and
if they send it other places, do we go down stream in terms of finding out where they
send it? Through you, Mr. Chair, to the Councillor,
my understanding is that the vast majority of those materials are processed within the
province. Vast majority.
I don’t have a specific list of all of the products and places that they go, but my understanding
is that the paper and plastics are processed here and they are by far the largest volume
of materials. So there was a front page article saying that
the recycling products that a lot of this is shipped to China, and if it’s contaminated
it’s burned. So my question to you is have we — can you
assure us that we don’t ship directly or indirectly any materials overseas to be recycled in another
country? It’s my understanding that all the plastics
that are delivered to be processed are managed within the province and not shipped to China.
And this is a little bit off topic but my last question is with this happening right
now because we’re like talking about it right now, what does the markets fall like — recycling
materials, that’s what the article said, and what impact will that have on the cost, can
you give us any visibility into how much increase in price we’re going to see when — because
of the fall in price in the marketplace? So through you, Mr. Chair, to the Councillor,
last year we had a revenue hit of approximately 8 to $9 million less revenue that was generated
due to the market conditions in China. That was built into this year’s budget.
Again, that revenue loss over previous years an we anticipate that to continue unless there
are other mechanisms put in place with outlets 8 or $9 million out of how much?
Approximately 18 to $20 million worth of revenue. Wow, that’s a big — yeah, and through you,
Mr. Chair to the Councillor, that’s generally what the market has seen across canned Canada
is a 50% drop in sales. Thank you.
Thank you Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong. Councillor Colle.
Yeah, thank you very much. A couple of questions. Are the single use
cups used by our national chain coffee shops, are they recyclable or what’s — are they
plastic, what are they? Through you, Mr. Chair to the Councillor,
they are not recyclable, no, they would be garbage.
So I know I was in a and w, yeah, they had a paper straw.
Are there recyclable. They wouldn’t be recyclable but could be composted
in the compost okay. One of my things is I think we’ve got to break people of this habit
of walking up and down our streets with coffee cups, you know I think it’s really an epidemic
of these people wandering our streets with these coffee cups, can’t we encourage them
to use the Italian model whereby you can not get a take away plastic cup or whatever it
is, you drink your coffee where you buy your coffee, you stand up, you have your coffee,
you chat with people, then you go hands free outside on the street without that in your
hand because that’s going to end up, you know, Councillor Peruzza knows exactly what I’m
talking about, you don’t see Italians walking around with plastic cups in Toronto or anywhere.
They drink their coffee at home, they drink it at the coffee bar. Can we do maybe an educational
program for millennials basically who walk up and down our streets littering with these
coffee cups? Through you, Mr. Chair to the Councillor,
we can definitely expand our education and promotion campaign to highlight the fact that
you can enjoy your coffee at the establishment in a reusable China cup versus — or bring
your own cup like Councillor McKelvie said. I — I don’t think she walks up and down the
streets of Scarborough with plastic cups in her hand, but anyways, so can maybe have — do
a pilot project trying to wean people off this addiction to these take away cups through
you, Mr. Chair, it’s definitely something we can do through our outreach program for
sure. And is there any way of reward? I know you
have — if you — if you have a smaller, you know, garbage bin, the black one or the gray
one, whatever colour it is, is there any — I know it’s a reduced price say if you get the
smaller one. Yep.
Are there any other incentives we can give people whether they don’t use the — because
if you don’t use a garbage bin or if you don’t use recycling blue box the city wouldn’t know
about it, would they? Likely we would know if you didn’t have a
garbage bin. No, no, but I’m saying there are people I
know some of the senior citizens inward 8 there, they don’t believe in buying canned
food, they would never — they certainly you know, when they shop they bring their paper
sacks or cloth sacks, so how would we not perhaps be able to reward them for not using
you know, all these containers and buying plastic cans and metal cans, et cetera?
Councillor Colle, maybe you want to take this off line, go for a cup of coffee in a pours
plan cup — por — [multiple speakers] please go for coffee.
Councillor Peruzza will help me out on this. You want to go to speakers?
Why don’t we go to speakers. I think we’re wearing out staff, we’re wearing out everyone
in the room and wearing out everyone listening remotely. So why don’t we go to speakers.
Not because I don’t think — I just want to follow-up on that because — so we’re going
to speakers. Yeah, sure because Councillor Colle makes
an interesting argument and an interesting point, and I don’t really know where it comes
from but we should do some work on it. Because it’s not just cultural. I don’t think you
can go into a — what they call a bar in Italy where you buy a cup of coffee and behind the
bar there’s plastic cups or stir row foam cups. I don’t ever recall a situation like
that where you go and get a cup, whatever that is and you can say at the bar oh by the
way, put it in a paper cup or a plastic cup because I want to take it away. Doesn’t exist.
Now, I don’t know whether that’s because culturally they’ve — they’ve refused to do that, or
whether it’s some kind of a rule. But the notion of walking into a bar and being able
to say, by the way, put my cap even know in a paper cup or plastic cup because I want
to take it away with me it’s a foreign notion. They give it to you in you know — the understanding
is that you’re going to sit there, sip it there, maybe buy something with it and really
enjoy the experience. And take in the — it’s actually quite interesting and it’s — it’s
a bit of a phenomenon, but here for some reason it’s like everybody, you know, whether it’s
Tim Hortons, or Starbucks or whoever it is it’s like five or six different layers of
cups, even downstairs for that matter, you know, different sizes, and we’ve really done
that to ourselves, and I don’t know how one does away with it, whether it’s by bringing
in rules or incentive programs, but it would need a big, big change. And I don’t think
it’s something that would happen, but it would be interesting to actually figure out what
some of those answers are to some of that. Thank you.
And I thought I’d just contribute that. Yeah, thank you, thank you Councillor Peruzza.
Councillor Colle. Yeah, no, I know I was trying to be somewhat
humorous with that, but I was just using an example of how we’ve got to change our mindset,
and I know that at home my wife now won’t let me in the door if I go shopping at lady
york or no frills, whatever it is, I can’t come back with plastic bags, impossible. So
I now changed, I bring my cloth bags reusable bags, shop and then come in the door, because
there’s no more plastic bags for me. So we all need to be more aware of the role that
individuals play in this in our habits, and I think many people would be part of, you
know, reducing single use plastic or whatever if we got into their sort of consciousness
not with rules, not with fines, it’s just the way of educating sensitizing people to
some of the habits we have and I think some of those habits we could break. The example
of the plastic bags we could break that habit but we don’t do it unless we’re sensitized
by educational programs, public relations programs. That can be done.
And I know, I use the example of the take away cups, that is a really addiction that
we have here in North America, the take away cup. I can imagine the cost of dealing with
those by, I don’t know how many millions there must be every day that people walk away. So
I don’t think there’s any harm in trying to sensitize people, he told indicate people,
whether it be the plastic coffee cups or plastic bags and people will come onside and also
to reward people who change their habits. And I don’t think we have enough rewards I
know there’s Torontonians that are extremely conscious about everything they do. I talk
people in my neighbourhood, my ward they are really starting to say right, I want to change,
and tell me more about it. And they’ll do it.
And I just think that we have an opportunity without spending a whole amount of money or
huge campaigns, just trying to look for those — and I know a lot of the ngos do this kind
of work, but there’s great opportunity to get people on side and that’s how we start
to change, I think, attitudes and we end up saving a lot of money and we save the plant
but unless we start to sensitize people in a friendly way, in a positive way, that’s
why I think it would be fun to do this Italian cup campaign and it tastes awful, I don’t
know how you can drink that stuff with the plastic.
So anyways, that’s my $0.02. Thank you, Councillor Colle.
I would agree — are there any other speakers on this item?
Councillor Layton. Yes, thank you. [off mic] we’re going to have
a long opportunity to consider various proposals that come forward.
Unfortunately it’s just going to be about almost a year from now.
And just to put some — some a calendar, a time line to this, it was what, like six years
ago that we entered into an attempt plastic bag ban that perhaps was ill-advised — [off
mic] I would argue that maybe we’ve reached a different point in this and I’ll give Jennifer
credit for this trashy society that may be more reflective of single use items. There
seems to be a sense of urgency around plastics that has grown since that time, but it has
been a couple years. And even since we gave direction to solid waste management to move
on this, it just seems we’re being a bit timid. I appreciate that we need to do consultation
on the matter, but another year just puts us another year behind, another probably several
hundred tons of plastic ending up in landfill that doesn’t need to be.
For one it’s not bans that I’m looking for, like that’s not the only thing I think that
many of us expect from this. There will be a time for prohibitions and to regulate industry
to change their practice that might just change the type of plastic they’re using so it’s
more compatible with our municipal system with other municipal systems.
There are times when fees may be appropriate like the fee that the City of Toronto had
for years and cemented to work. I certainly saw more people over the course of time that
used reusable bags rather than getting bags from stores.
There may be some that involve education and only education.
Because we know that education of young people of youth works.
Our — much of our recycling our blue bin program depended on that. I know because that
was the generation that had to go home and police their parents about what to put in
what bin. Often people say you need a degree to learn
about what goes in the blue bin, no you don’t you need a 7-year old that’s gone to school
that knows exactly what can go in that blue bin and green bin because they’re taught that
and take the time and care. And might be incentives that are involved to try to give people an
encouragement to not use those items. All of this though has been workshopped to death
by the national zero waste council that we’re a member of. I don’t think the City of Toronto
is a member of the plastics their plastics advisory panel, a member of the food advisory
panel, I sit on it with solid waste management, but their plastic advisory panel, I sent it
to the clerks to circulate on this on the next item that — that includes like they
include industry, they include municipalities, they include the regulatory authority, the
provinces and gone through and identified different approaches for different types of
plastic. So we don’t have to reinvent the wheel here.
I’m happy to hear that staff have seen this. I hope they take it to heart in order to move
it forward a little quickly. It’s not that these are foreign or future technologies.
I met with a lobbyist from wendtworth technologies, and with operations in the U.S. And Europe
and had some very practical advice about how we could accomplish this that would reduce
the am of plastic ending up in landfill, that would reduce the am of plastic that we use.
So I think it’s really important for us to find those — those private sector partners
that aren’t afraid of change. Because too often we sit there, people come in and say
we can’t do that, we can’t do that, we can’t do that, the fact is other jurisdictions are
doing it and seeing good results. Let’s first not be afraid of involving the private sector
in the discussion. But also not afraid to push them in order to identify those that
are willing to go along a path with us that involves a less plastic less throw away future,
so that we can have this society that Councillor Peruzza and Colle talk about, more time to
enjoy the things that are in our cups rather than trying to figure out what bin the cup
needs to go in. Thank you, Councillor Layton.
Any other speakers? Okay I’m going to move adoption of the report before us. All those
in favour. Opposed. That is carried. Now, onto item 10 management of solid waste contracts
under transition to full extent producer responsibility model.
Questions for staff? Councillor Layton has a motion first of all, I’d like to thank staff
for this report back. I think it was — it was brought to the floor of the committee
last month and I think by providing staff the opportunity to give feedback, I think
the — the recommendation in the confidential report which I will move are very helpful
in our dialogue with — with our contractor. I would like to move the following motion
that City Council direct the city manager to formally request that the minister of the
environment provide an update on the future of the extended producer responsibility transition
for the blue box program as the delay is costing the city in outdated contract costs. I just
wanted to ask, and apparently we’ve asked this on a staff to staff sort of level, but
we need to make it very clear that these delays are not helpful. And in fact may be costing
the city money. Because in the — in this time of uncertainty we don’t know what to
do, do we put out a new contract then we sign and have to turn around and change the parameters
for or have costly provisions to break or to change, or do we just continue on our existing
contract that might not get us the best price? Both those things involve us paying more.
So it’s important for us to realize that and important for the provincial government to
realize that their delay is costing this City of Toronto money, because there’s a lot of
stuff in the news in the last little bit oh it’s the city that’s — this — just spending
money — spending money faster than they collect it, but in fact it’s not and in this respect
it’s the province that are directly costing us more money by not moving on their transition
to the new blue box program. Where they have on other items as we see in the report. So
I’m just hoping we can tell the minister that we’d like an update and that this is important
to our bottom line. Thank you. Councillor Layton, any questions
for the mover? Any further speakers on the item? No. Okay. The motion is on the screen.
All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried. The item as amended, all those in favour.
Opposed. That is carried. Item number 11. — I planned to putting a
motion forward to discuss the ability of bringing it in house after this contract was up. That’s
like a decade away. So maybe we’ll leave that one for another day.
Oh, well that’s good news. Any other speakers on the item?
Councillor Layton, would you like to move the recommendations?
Sure. All those in favour? Opposed.
That is carried. [off mic] item number 12 this is one of the
walk on items. We have a deputant Paul — thank you very
much for come. You have five minutes. Good morning Councillors and I appreciate
the opportunity to appear before you. We support the content of Councillor Peruzza’s memo to
you and certainly support the motion that is at the bottom of the document. And we thank
the Councillor very much for his leadership in this matter.
As you know, the ravines a part of our DNA of this city.
There’s 11,000 of ravine lands. We all live within one kilometre of ravine.
And the ravines are under pressure from a number of things, erosion, human traffic,
invasive species — maples, Norway maples, dog strangling vine and so on.
And the ravines are changing. Very few of them are in their pristine state.
Sanofi and it’s a big job, the city recognizes very well through its strategy that the ravines
need help but where to find the resource to do this. And I’m delighted to say that sanofi
wants to be a pioneer here and be the first to take on a portion of convene from steels
avenue down to the — and Stuart it, look after it. And help achieve the kinds of things
the city wants to do in its ravines program. I should give you a thumbnail about the company.
Sanofi has been at its location for a hundred years. It manufacturers vaccines for sale
around the world. It’s currently investing $500 million in constructing a new facility.
And it has a very strong green ethic in its operations.
In stewarding sanofi is prepared to make a five year commitment to look after the ravine.
This is done on a describe particular basis. We would use probably University of Toronto
faculty of forestry to help. And sanofi would especially employee professional
outside resources to help with this work. Importantly sanofi wants to engage citizens
in this, and it has a good working relationship with local rate payer organizations, schools
could be involved and so on in seed planting programs. And it’s important that citizens
be engaged because we all need to know how important the ravines are and, you know, best
way to do this is to teach in schools and get people out on weekends helping to remove
invasives, clean up garbage and so on. To do this, we would very much appreciate
your support and council’s support because it is a new project, a new initiative, and
it’s — since it is the first it’s going to have its challenges. And have council’s endorsement
so we work with staff would be a good thing. And we also have to work with the TRCA on
this because they really do control the ravine lands, but we think this can happen. And it’s
exciting project, it’s not going to cost the city anything.
And we hope that this opens the door for many other projects of this nature. Thank you,
that’s my presentation. If you have any questions I’d be happy to answer them.
All right. Well thank you, Paul, for coming and thank you for bringing this idea forward.
Just very quickly since 2010, I guess sanofi has had environmental program called planet
mobilization. And I’m assuming that taking stewardship or partnering with community stakeholders
on some of the west don river valley properties it harmonizes with that program.
Yes, Councillor, that’s correct. And the program involves reduction of the things that the
sanofi’s campus would use like water and electricity and so on. Managing greenhouse gases. Sanofi
last year engaged forestry to do an inventory of all their treason site and to develop a
plan to manage those and also restore some vegetation. And, yes, sanofi believes very
strongly in engaging local groups. And we will be reaching out to the community.
Okay. Thank you very much. Councillor Colle.
Yes. Thank you very much, Paul, for bringing this forward.
This exciting partnership here. Does sanofi engage in this type of stewardship
partnership in any other counties or jurisdictions that you know of?
I believe this is the first for the company. Because their head office is in Switzerland?
No Paris Paris, France, yeah. In terms of in this initiative that’s being proposed here,
would they undertake to do an inventory of for 123457bs invasive species to make sure
we have a bench Mark going forward? Councillor, that’s a very good question and
I should have provided more detail in terms of a sustain 35ib89 plan, but on of the things
you have to do is inventory what is there. You have to look at soil quality then tough
look at the issues that may be existing like erosion and invasive species and so on, the
health of existing trees and other vegetation, because if you don’t do that you can’t really
develop an intelligent plan going forward. It has to be very — and you know to remove
invasives and so on that takes a lot — it takes study and you have to know exactly what
you’re doing and what you’re going to do in terms of remediating. And once you start this
program it’s important that it be maintained. And so that’s why sanofi’s prepared to do
the five year window. Because I guess right now we have no idea
how many — are in our ravines do we? It depends on the are convenes, inner city
there are a lot more because they arrived there first. I hate to pick on national lit
tees. [multiple speakers] [off mic].
Thank you very much for coming today with this exciting proposal.
You’re welcome Councillor McKelvie. No questions. Questions for staff questions
for staff, okay. Any other questions for the deputant. Okay,
great. My question of staff is when will we see the
next report on the ravine strategy so that strategy implementation strategy is planned
to be presented in front of council this September. This fall.
Questions for staff, Councillor Colle. Yes, in terms of this offer from sanofi would
it be compatible in terms of the work that the ongoing ravine strategy work is being
done by our parks department and conservation authority, could you see this as a potential
support and beneficial to what the city is doing, have this kind of partnership through
you, Mr. Chair, I think the motion in front of us is to look at the feasibility, that’s
great. We can do that. A lot of the proposals are in line with what
we’re doing, what we’re presenting and how we actually engage in that implementation
would be, I guess, subject to how the partnership would work and who would do what and what
would the magnitude be, again the motion in front of us is fantastic.
There’s a group of people interested in help managing the ravines. I’d like to have those
conversations to add to that one of the guiding principles in the sprang gee was to look for
partnership approximates a lot of people and a lot of consultation that occurred when the
strategy was developed. And we heard loud and clear there’s all kind partnerships, a
lot of people want to work with the city. What we needs the framework.
This could be a template for developing this framework of partnerships.
That would help, yes. Thank you.
Any other questions for staff? Any speakers? Councillor Colle.
Yeah, no, this is very welcoming and exciting because it’s obvious that the task before
the city and the conservation authority is enormous. We just have — we’re fortunate
to have 20% of our land mass almost is ravines. And I mean, that’s a — an incredible benefit
as there are national sewers as our city — deputy city manager knows. And without them the flooding
would just be incredible in the city if we didn’t have those natural ravines. So this
initiative on behalf of a very world renowned company that is based in your ward, right,
Councillor? Yes.
So even more renowned then. I think this is potentially a great model
going forward in getting people to adopt, to engage, to support, because the city or
government officials cannot sustain the ravines by themselves. They’re just too enormous a
task, I mean the inventory required, never mind the removal, the replanting.
You’ve got a pretty green ward I think up there, but anyways [multiple speakers] [off
mic] how many species they’ve got in their wards and now which ones are the most danger.
We should know that. We don’t know that right now. So you could be overrun with Norwegians
in your ward and wouldn’t know about it. Anyways I fully support this initiative.
Thank you, Councillor Colle. Any other speakers on the item?
Obviously I wouldn’t have brought it here if I didn’t support it. I think it’s a great
idea to bring in the corporate sector, bring in community part percent. I think friends
of the dawn has been a very successful model for helping maintain the dawn and Councillor
Colle is correct, the responsibility and stewardship of our ravines is way beyond the resources
of our parks department, and we need community partners to come in.
Sanofi has a stellar record of being a good community partner, worldwide. And I believe
that working with staff they can come back with some good ideas. At the beginning of
this term I went to the mayor’s office I said ravines are the new frontier in this city.
We’ve got to spend this term focusing on a convenience and I was so excited to hear Councillor
McKelvie and Councillor Colle also agree with that. It’s a vast piece of geography but it’s
a wonderful piece, philosophy should be enjoyed but protect and certainly I believe what’s
before us can help us meet that philosophy enjoy and protect.
Yes, Councillor Peruzza. I think this is a great initial tip, by the
way. The a convenience are absolutely magnificent but under enormous pressure, enormous threat
not just when it floods and for example, the waters wash up all the plastics and all the
other junk that they sort of bring down into the ravine system but they’re a source of
dumping for a lot of people. And they’re really being strangled, they’re being choked they’re
such a treasure not just — the problem isn’t just, you know invasive species that are growing
rampant everywhere, but really what we’re doing to them. So — and as you say, they’re
way beyond the city’s ability to deal with them in a significant way. So these partnerships
with the private sector and with communities, I think that there’s a lot of — there are
a lot of people out there willing to help in this regard and willing to work with us
in maintaining you know sort of the health and vitality of the ravine system. So an initiative
like this is wonderful to see and hopefully that will be an example to others to follow
suit and really give us a hand in — in revitalizing one of our gems, one of our treasures and
that’s our are convene system, sure. Thank you, Councillor Peruzza. I guess we
can vote on the motion. Want to put it on the screen or everyone has
it in front of them. Let’s record that one, Mr. Chairman.
Sorry? Let’s record it.
Yes, okay, all those in favour of adopting the recommendation. Councillor co-Councillor
McKelvie, Councillor Peruzza, Councillor Minnan-Wong, Councillor Pasternak. Opposed no one opposed
it’s unanimous. Thank you very much. Lasted item is closure of Don Valley Parkway
ramps. This is Deputy Mayor Minnan-Wong’s item.
Question for staff or — [off mic] you’ve written it such.
[off mic] [off mic]. I think is a tad long. So I might be amending
it at council to shorten that up because I don’t think they — to close off the ramps
for that long, I’m not saying they will what I’m saying if you give them too much time
they’ll use too much time. We’ll be glad to talk to you before council,
before the report goes forward and discuss that with you.
Okay. Thanks. So I’ll move approval.
Okay. All those in favour. Opposed. That is carried.
Are we done? I believe that completes our business for
it had. Thank you very much. Thanks.
Enjoy the rest of the day.
We are adjourned.

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